Recent E-mail Exchange with my Mother

by bavman 20 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  blondie

  Hey Greg. So many jws use the WT line as a barrier. Your mom was reassuring herself that she is doing the right thing. She sounds like the kind of woman who is missing her children but not enough to give up everlasting life on a paradise earth. I'm sure she has invested much of her life in this thinking. It takes a mature, strong person willing to take healthy risks to leave the WTS.

  It is good to review Hassan's book on how to help family and friends leave. One point, patience, patience, patience. When the seed was planted in my brain, it took 10 years to get out.

  Blondie
• 

  bavman

  Thanks Blondie. I will review Hassan's book. Yes, patience I will try to have. I went to meditation tonight. A definite help.
• 

  Frank75

  Dear Greg: It is too bad you didn't do more research before you made the decision to dedicate your life an get babtized. That's what we all do . Make sure of all things.

  Greg:

  Witnesses with scriptures is like a mental patient with a gun. More research? I do not know how old you are or how old you were when you got baptized, but perhaps this will be an eye opener to yur mom.

  Baptism is an outward sign of repentance and dedication to God is that, namely dedication to him, not an organization. Show her what the WT says about Baptism.

  *** w55 7/1 p. 411 Christian Baptism for the New World Society ***

  15 A Christian, therefore, cannot be baptized in the name of the one actually doing the immersing or in the name of any man, nor in the name of any organization, but in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy spirit. This shows, among other things, that Christianity is not a denominational affair, that sects have nothing to do with it. “Does the Christ exist divided? Paul was not impaled for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I am thankful I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name.”—1 Cor. 1:13-15, NW.

  *** w66 10/1 pp. 603-604 Serving with Everlasting Life in View ***15 This is what we mean when we dedicate our lives to Jehovah. We do not dedicate ourselves to a religion, nor to a man, nor to an organization. No, we dedicate ourselves to the Supreme Sovereign of the Universe, our Creator, Jehovah God himself. This makes dedication a very personal relationship between us and Jehovah.
  Additionally, your mom or parents have never gone on a trip, stayed at a hotel, bought a car or other product that they didn't research well enough and that was well sold to them by someone who withheld information without publishing any of the negatives? I'm sure knowing your family's history you could highlight to her just how silly that judgment of you is!

  What good would your research have done? Tell her you researched the total blood ban by the Watchtower many years ago very well! Then they went and watered it down now so that you can take almost 99% of it!

  Likewise the "make Sure" comment is taken from Thessalonians. Remind your mom that Paul introduced that expression to "Brothers" who were in danger of "s leep(ing) on as the rest do, but let us stay awake and keep our senses". So this was to be a constant process not something done once and never revisited! Finally Paul wrote just preceeding that expression, "do not treat prophesying with contempt". Another translation says it best, "Don't suppress the Spirit, and don't stifle those who have a word from the Master. On the other hand, don't be gullible. Check out everything, and keep only what's good. Throw out anything tainted with evil."

  Ask her if she has done that herself in obedience to Paul!

  Since you wish to do that you have scrutinized some of the prophetic utterances of the WT and would like to share with her what you found!

  Frank75
• 

  Frank75

  Theres only one true God(Jehovah) One Lord. One Bible. One faith. One Babtism. Eph.4: 5.

  She missed the thing about "One Hope" or "Calling"! Do the JW's believe and teach only one hope to go along with that 1 baptism and 1 God?

  4

  One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God

  You might want to throw out the question regarding mediator as well since she brought up the 1 Lord etc.

  (1 Timothy 2:5) 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,. . .

  Ask her if she has "made sure" that the Watchtower teaches that, and what she believes.

  Many dubs are not aware of this subtle teaching and are entirely shocked to learn the WT disagrees with Paul!

  Try that!

  Blondie is right, no matter what you do, be patient and kind. At least your mom is willing to talk. If you stick to what you can prove to her from the bible that she believes, you have a chance to open her eyes.

  Frank75
• 

  exjdub

  The JW religion is not a religion you can stay in if you don't believe it yeah know...unless you are o.k. with being dishonest. I would have been content searching while still in but I wasn't allowed to do that. I was pushed to believe it or else. Belief doesn't work very well that way.

  That is a very powerful statement Greg...I love it. I can't imagine any JW could read that and not pause because it is a completely reasonable fact and they know it is true, although I don't think any of them are comfortable with it.

  exjdub
• 

  Frank75

  ExJW: - I can't imagine any JW could read that and not pause because it is a completely reasonable fact and they know it is true, although I don't think any of them are comfortable with it.

  That is so true and why it should be kept up as opposed to silence. A verbal or written rejection of what we say does not mean that we have had no impact on them. We should not be concerned with their comfort level because the condition Dubs have is not impenetrable.

  It is called Dissonance. Humans are more likely to deal with beliefs in absolutes than learn from and reconcile differences presented. Anything that mom believes of the JW's is absolute. It is the "Truth" therefore there is no falsehood or deception. She is "Free" therefore she is not forced in any way to accept anything. They use the bible therefore all beliefs are bible based.

  Wikipedia - Cognitive dissonance is a psychological term which describes the uncomfortable tension that may or may not come from having two conflicting thoughts at the same time, or from engaging in behavior that conflicts with one's beliefs. More precisely, it is the perception of incompatibility between two cognitions, where "cognition" is defined as any element of knowledge, including attitude, emotion, belief, or behavior. The theory of cognitive dissonance states that contradicting cognitions serve as a driving force that compels the mind to acquire or invent new thoughts or beliefs, or to modify existing beliefs, so as to reduce the amount of dissonance (conflict) between cognitions. Experiments have attempted to quantify this hypothetical drive. Some of these examined how beliefs often change to match behavior when beliefs and behavior are in conflict.

  Frank75
• 

  xjwms

  WOW Greg, .. great job

  It is so sad how the JW's close their minds and stay in the tiny box. The love between parents and children are so controled.

  I have so much more to say, just not now, ... how was the party?

  Lets do a breakfast or lunch sometime.

  .
• 

  puck

  wow, greg -- i think we may have the same mom! mine says almost the exact same things. it's eerie. good job by you with the reply... i only wish i could have that conversation with *my* mom... maybe someday.
• 

  bavman

  Thanks for all the replies. I sent a reply of my own to my mom a couple weeks ago but haven't heard back yet. Not sure how Steve Hassan my reply is but hey...I did the best I could and it came from the real me.
  
  
  Dear Mom,
  
  
  I do wish I had done more research but then again at the time I guess I thought I had. The problem with the research I had done was it was mostly from only one point of view. Of course, I was only 15 so the limited life experience was against me as well. Also, I became convinced "the end" was very near because of the way "this generation" was taught at the time. A 1989 Awake magazine seemed to confirm this as well when it stated, 'The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century.
  
  I remember that article being talked about with excitement in the family. Dad even mentioned it in a prayer in front of the congregation. Too bad no one mentioned to me it was changed in the bound volume quietly to, "be completed in our day".
  
  I guess really I was just too scared I would die at Armaggeddon very soon if I didn't make a quick decision and get very involved. I do wish I had waited though because I think if I had seen what transpired in our congregation shortly thereafter I would have researched further. It wasn't long after that that I did start researching to some extent and was becoming disillusioned with the whole thing. It was too late though so at the same time I tried to ignore those feelings.
  
  The scripture you indicated about making sure of all things has a meaning (when read in context) of keep making sure of all things. That is what I did, not stopping at 15 but continued, and this is good advice.
  
  When I referred to being pushed into believing I was talking about ****** (my ex-wife) and the elders. That certainly was the case. I was told by ****** she would throw out any books from other churches if they came in the mail and it was a requirement by her (going to meetings and studying the WT pubs.) for staying with me. I was in fact struggling to go to meetings but hadn't made any decision to stop when she pushed me verbally to such an extent that I said 'fine, then I am done with meetings'. She left the next day. This was only one such example of this. Also, the elders were trying to get me to disassociate (by calling on the phone and leaving messages) after I told them I had attended a meeting with Bible students. I hadn't even joined just attended a couple of times. I am not exagerating these things Mom. When I mentioned 'dishonesty' I was saying it would be dishonest for me to go back pretending to believe.
  
  As far as current beliefs well I am glad to hear you are happy but I wasn't and am much happier now. Much of what you wrote is also what Mormons, Moonies, certain Islamic sects (just insert Allah)believe they have the truth. Crazy things are done in the name of that truth. I believe there are common myths that we can all draw on as truth but should always be very careful we don't leave our reasoning ability behind. As Buddha says, 'believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.' Good advice indeed.
  
  I don't pretend I have handled all things perfectly Mom. I am just a human. I am trying though and love you and Dad alot.
  
  Love
  Greg
• 

  Odrade

  this thread deserves a "best of..." thanks for sharing your messages.