I know this has been draged through the coals but I need WT and book info on it now..............Ill tell you about it later
Thanks
Jesus mediator...........info needed now.....!!!!!!!!!
by vitty 10 Replies latest jw friends
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candidlynuts
one place is the insight book under mediator..
i had a thread awhile back on the subject, i'll see if i can dig it up for you
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candidlynuts
from a post from lady liberty
Lady Liberty
(From the Watchtower- 1979 April 1st issue page 31, under qustions from the readers.)
QuestionsfromReaders
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IsJesusthe"mediator"onlyforanointedChristians?The term "mediator" occurs just six times in the Christian Greek Scriptures and Scripturally is always used regarding a formal covenant.
Moses was the "mediator" of the Law covenant made between God and the nation of Israel. (Gal. 3:19, 20) Christ, though, is the "mediator of a new covenant" between Jehovah and spiritual Israel, the "Israel of God" that will serve as kings and priests in heaven with Jesus. (Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24; Gal. 6:16) At a time when God was selecting those to be taken into that new covenant, the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was the "one mediator between God and men." (1 Tim. 2:5) Reasonably Paul was here using the word "mediator" in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is "mediator." So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians.
The new covenant will terminate with the glorification of the remnant who are today in that covenant mediated by Christ. The "great crowd" of "other sheep" that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the "little flock" of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant. During the millennium Jesus Christ will be their king, high priest and judge. For more detailed information, see AidtoBibleUnderstanding, pages 1129 and 1130 under "Mediator"; also God’s"EternalPurpose"NowTriumphingforMan’sGood, page 160, paragraph 10; also TheWatchtower issues of February 15, 1966, pages 105 through 123; November 15, 1972, pages 685 and 686, under the subheading "Leading the Way to a New Covenant"; and April 1, 1973, pages 198 and 199, under the subheading "The New Covenant."
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candidlynuts
Watchtower 1991 February 15 pp.15-20 "You Were Bought With a Price"
8 Hence, the ransom sacrifice is fundamental to the new covenant, of which Jesus is the Mediator. Paul wrote: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all-this is what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times." (1 Timothy 2:5, 6) Those words especially apply to the 144,000, with whom the new covenant is made.
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11 Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great crowd have already "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:14)Christ does not act as Mediator of the new covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this covenant through the work of God's Kingdom. Christ still acts toward them, however, as High Priest, through whom Jehovah can and does apply the ransom to the extent of their now being declared righteous as God's friends. (Compare James 2:23.) During the Millennium, they will gradually "be set free from enslavement to corruption [until finally they] have the glorious freedom of the children of God."—Romans 8:21.
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candidlynuts
a link to an older thread
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blondie
*** w89 8/15 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***
Is Jesus the Mediator only for spirit-anointed Christians or for all mankind, since 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 speaks of him as the "mediator" who "gave himself a corresponding ransom forall"?
The Bible contains both basic teachings and deep truths, which are solid food for study. One such study involves Jesus Christ’s role as Mediator. The apostle Paul wrote: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—this is what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times."—1 Timothy 2:5, 6.
To grasp what Paul is saying, we must first appreciate that the Bible sets out two destinies for faithful humans: (1) perfect life on a restored earthly paradise and (2) life in heaven for Christ’s "little flock," numbering 144,000. (Luke 12:32; Revelation 5:10; 14:1-3) Christendom teaches that all good people go to heaven, which unscriptural position has colored the general view, so that Jesus is considered a go-between for all such people. What, though, does the Bible indicate?
The Greek word me·si´tes, used for "mediator," means ‘one who finds himself between two bodies or parties.’ It was a ‘many-sided technical term of Hellenistic legal language.’ Professor Albrecht Oepke (TheologicalDictionaryoftheNewTestament) says that me·si´tes was "one of the most varied technical terms in the vocabulary of Hellen[istic] law."
But why does the Bible use a legal term for Jesus’ mediatory role? As background, consider what Paul wrote about God’s Law given to Israel assembled before Mount Sinai: "It was transmitted through angels by the hand of a mediator." (Galatians 3:19, 20) That mediator was Moses. He was the intermediary agent between Jehovah and the fleshly nation of Israel. An agent for what? For establishing a covenant, or legal contract, between God and the nation.
Does this mean that there is a specific legal sense involved in Jesus’ role as Mediator? Yes. Note Paul’s comment at Hebrews 8:6. After speaking about the tabernacle and other typical representations under the Law covenant, he wrote: "Jesus has obtained a more excellent public service, so that he is also the mediator of a correspondingly better covenant, which has been legally established upon better promises." The "better covenant" was the new covenant, which replaced the covenant mediated by Moses. (Hebrews 8:7-13) The new covenant was "legally established." It laid the basis for some of Christ’s followers, beginning with the apostles, to gain "entry into the holy place," heaven itself.—Hebrews 9:24; 10:16-19.
There are other indications too of the legal nature of Jesus’ role as Mediator of the "new covenant." Commenting on God’s promise at Psalm 110:4, Paul wrote: "To that extent also Jesus has become theonegiveninpledge [en´gy·os] of a better covenant." (Hebrews 7:22) This is the only Biblical use of the word en´gy·os.TheNewInternationalDictionaryofNewTestamentTheology says: "The engyos guaranteed that a legal obligation would be carried out." So Jesus as Mediator of the new covenant serves as a legal pledge that "a better hope" would be realized.—Hebrews 7:19.
Elsewhere Paul uses yet another word having a legal sense, ar·ra·bon´, translated "token." The same dictionary says: "The Gk. word arrabon . . . is a legal concept from the language of business and trade." Note how Paul used this legal term: "He who has anointed us is God. He has also put his seal upon us and has given us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit, in our hearts." (2 Corinthians 1:21, 22) Both other occurrences of ar·ra·bon´ also deal with God’s anointing of Christians with spirit, bringing them an ‘everlasting reward or inheritance in the heavens’ as spirit sons of God.—2 Corinthians 5:1, 5; Ephesians 1:13, 14; see KingdomInterlinearTranslationoftheGreekScriptures.
Clearly, then, the new covenant is not a loose arrangement open to all mankind. It is a carefully arranged legal provision involving God and anointed Christians.
This should help us to understand 1 Timothy 2:5, 6. Here the reference to "mediator" was made after the five other occurrences of the word in letters written earlier. Hence, Timothy would have understood Jesus’ mediatorship to be His legal role connected with the new covenant. ThePastoralEpistles, by Dibelius and Conzelmann, acknowledges that at 1 Timothy 2:5 ‘the term "mediator" has a legal significance,’ and "although in this passage, in contrast to Heb 8:6, the [covenant] is not mentioned, one must nevertheless presuppose the meaning ‘mediator of the covenant,’ as the context shows." Professor Oepke observes that 1 Timothy 2:5 presents Jesus as "the attorney and negotiator."
A modern-day illustration may help to clarify this, especially if you are not a spirit-anointed Christian. Think of a legal case in which an attorney is involved. His role may be not so much that of a lawyer arguing for justice as that of one who is mediating or bringing about a legal contract acceptable to and beneficial to two parties. Of course, you are not in that legal case, so in that sense he is not serving as your attorney. Yet he may be your very close friend who in other ways gives you valuable help.
Sometimes an attorney’s work produces results that benefit many others. So it is with Jesus’ legal accomplishments as Mediator of the new covenant. It produces what the Law covenant did not, a heavenly "kingdom of priests." (Exodus 19:6; 1 Peter 2:9) Thereafter anointed Christians in the Kingdom will work with Jesus from heaven to bring a blessing to "all nations of the earth."—Genesis 22:18.
The people of all nations who have the hope of everlasting life on earth benefit even now from Jesus’ services. Though he is not their legal Mediator, for they are not in the new covenant, he is their means of approaching Jehovah. Christ said: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6) All who will gain life on earth must direct their prayers to Jehovah through Jesus. (John 14:13, 23, 24) Jesus also serves as a compassionate High Priest who is able to apply in their behalf the benefits of his sacrifice, allowing them to gain forgiveness and eventual salvation.—Acts 4:12; Hebrews 4:15.
Consequently, 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 is not using "mediator" in the broad sense common in many languages. It is not saying that Jesus is a mediator between God and all mankind. Rather, it refers to Christ as legal Mediator (or, "attorney") of the new covenant, this being the restricted way in which the Bible uses the term. Jesus is also a corresponding ransom for all in that covenant, both Jews and Gentiles, who will receive immortal life in heaven. The apostle John referred to these at 1 John 2:2. But he indicated that others too will receive the benefit of Christ’s sacrifice: "He is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s."
Those of ‘the whole world’ are all who will gain eternal life in a restored earthly paradise. Millions of such approved servants of God now have that earthly hope. They view Jesus as their High Priest and King through whom they can daily gain approach to Jehovah. They rely on Jesus’ ransom, which is available to them, just as it will be to men such as Abraham, David, and John the Baptizer when these are resurrected. (Matthew 20:28) Thus, Christ’s sacrifice will lead to everlasting life for all obedient mankind.
[Footnotes]
A discussion of covenants appears in TheWatchtower of February 1, 1989, pages 10-20.
[Picture
onpage31]Here at Mount Sinai, Moses served as mediator of the Law covenant
[Credit
Line]Pictorial Archive (Near Eastern History) Est.
*** w79 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
Is Jesus the "mediator" only for anointed Christians?
The term "mediator" occurs just six times in the Christian Greek Scriptures and Scripturally is always used regarding a formal covenant.
Moses was the "mediator" of the Law covenant made between God and the nation of Israel. (Gal. 3:19, 20) Christ, though, is the "mediator of a new covenant" between Jehovah and spiritual Israel, the "Israel of God" that will serve as kings and priests in heaven with Jesus. (Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24; Gal. 6:16) At a time when God was selecting those to be taken into that new covenant, the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was the "one mediator between God and men." (1 Tim. 2:5) Reasonably Paul was here using the word "mediator" in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is "mediator." So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians.
The new covenant will terminate with the glorification of the remnant who are today in that covenant mediated by Christ. The "great crowd" of "other sheep" that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the "little flock" of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant. During the millennium Jesus Christ will be their king, high priest and judge. For more detailed information, see AidtoBibleUnderstanding, pages 1129 and 1130 under "Mediator"; also God’s"EternalPurpose"NowTriumphingforMan’sGood, page 160, paragraph 10; also TheWatchtower issues of February 15, 1966, pages 105 through 123; November 15, 1972, pages 685 and 686, under the subheading "Leading the Way to a New Covenant"; and April 1, 1973, pages 198 and 199, under the subheading "The New Covenant."
*** w03 2/15 p. 22 par. 19 What Does the Lord’s Evening Meal Mean to You? ***The parties to the new covenant are God and anointed ones. (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 12:22-24) Jesus is the mediator. Made operative by Christ’s shed blood, the new covenant took out not only from the Jews but also from the nations a people for Jehovah’s name and made them part of Abraham’s "seed." (Galatians 3:26-29; Acts 15:14) This "everlasting covenant" provides for all spiritual Israelites to be resurrected to immortal life in heaven.—Hebrews 13:20.
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OUTLAW
In Truth..WBT$ claims to be the mediator Between God and Mankinkind..Jesus is out of a job!.....God does as he`s told,by the WBT$..Or..He gets the Boot too!..LOL!...OUTLAW
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vitty
Thanks thats just the info I need
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vitty
Well we had a very interesting conversation, my mum and sister came for a visit................we all agreed that Jesus was our mediator ..untill I told them the society said he wasnt. I got them to say how totally wrong it was, then showed them in their own literature that Jesus wasnt . My mum said i was twisting what they said But my sister saw straight through it.She was pretty surprised but not shocked.
Last night I was talking about the generation changed...................now my mother has been a witness since the late fifties and my sister has been in she was 12 years get this.................................... they both didnt know what i was talkng about
I couldnt find any awake before 1995......................to show them or the WT of 1995 .......I do now. They are going home this morning so its too late and my sister was pretty cross that I was talking about it but I coundnt understand it . my mum kept saying they never taught that because if they did all that generation would be dead now ................um yeah thats my point................talk about denial.
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Lady Liberty
Dear Vitty..
WOW! Looks like you had quite the conversations with your family. What you showed them though may peak their intrests. They may look into what you were trying to tell them. Or they may ask other JWs about the generation teaching..and to their suprise they may do some research and begin to have their own questions. Although it is likely they will never tell you about it. At least not for a long time. You got your foot in the door, and cognizant dissonance may begin. Good JOB!
Sincerely,
Lady Liberty