Should the US Submit to the International Criminal Court?

by frankiespeakin 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    What do you think about the the US withdrawing its signature from Statute of the International Criminal Court. Did the Bush do it to protect his own ass? And how do you feel about the "Patriot Act" and the "Miltary Commisions act" as far as civil liberties and the US constitution are concerned? What do you feel this is all leading up to?

    http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/treaties/2002-0510-MH-ICC.html

    Miami Herald, 10 May 2002, 7B

    Reconsider U.S. Stand

    Bush is wrong on international court

    by Andrew Reding


    President Bush’s decision to withdraw the U.S. signature from the Statute of the International Criminal Court threatens to undermine the administration’s global campaign against terrorism.

    The court’s purpose is to try individuals who commit crimes against humanity — acts of mass terror against civilian populations, such as the ones carried out against the United States last September. One would think that the White House would welcome such international cooperation in the war on terror. But it does not, and is making an emphatic point of saying that it will not recognize the new court.

    In defense of its action, the administration claims that the statute would enable foreign countries to arrest U.S. citizens for political reasons and hand them over for trial before foreign judges in The Hague.

    In fact, however, a pretrial review panel will be set up to dispose of frivolous or politically motivated charges. Most cases will be brought by a chief prosecutor, or by the Security Council, where the United States has a veto. Most of the judges will be from countries allied to the United States.

    Were there merit to the U.S. claims, the ICC Statute would not have been ratified by 14 of 15 members of the European Union (the 15th, Greece, is in the process of ratifying) and by Canada. Even British Prime Minister Tony Blair, normally a staunch ally of the White House, vigorously disagrees with Bush on this matter.

    In combating the court, the United States is lining up alongside Iraq, North Korea, Libya, Cuba and China — nations with good reasons to fear such a tribunal. Why?

    SERVE U.S. OBJECTIVES

    Could it be that the White House wishes to reserve the right to support the use of terror against foreign civilians when it serves U.S. objectives — just as it wishes to reserve the right to use land mines, even though foreign civilians are the prime victims? Consider the case of Emmanuel Constant.

    Constant led a terrorist group called FRAPH that murdered hundreds of Haitian civilians in the early 1990s under the military junta that overthrew President Jean-Bertrand Aristide. When U.S. troops invaded the island nation in 1994 and searched FRAPH headquarters, they seized documents and photographs that depicted the torture and murder of civilians.

    Yet Constant was permitted to enter the United States and settle in Queens. A 1995 deportation order has remained unenforced for seven years. The Bush administration has so far declined to extradite Constant. The reason? Constant was on the CIA payroll and has threatened to expose the collaboration of U.S. security agencies with his organization.

    The hypocrisy does not end there. Just because Bush does not want U.S. officials held accountable before an international tribunal does not mean he does not want leaders of other countries brought before such tribunals.

    On the very day that the United States was boycotting the U.N. ceremony commemorating establishment of the ICC, it succeeded in pressuring the Serbian parliament to pass a law facilitating extradition of key deputies of former President Slobodan Milosevich to face trial before another U.N. tribunal in The Hague. The vote occurred after the United States cut $40 million in economic assistance to protest what it called inadequate cooperation with the U.N. tribunal.

    A ONE-WAY STREET

    In other words, international tribunals are fine, even mandatory for prosecuting U.S. enemies. But yet the United States is demanding an exemption for its citizens. International justice, in Washington’s view, is a one-way street.

    The double standard is doing incalculable damage to U.S. interests worldwide. To have any chance of winning a global war on terrorism, the United States will need the support of its allies. To secure that support, it must demonstrate that it is waging a war for the benefit of humankind, not as a cover for U.S. hegemony.

    Until the United States reverses its stand on the International Criminal Court, its war on terrorism will ring hollow and will only foster the anti-Americanism that led to Sept. 11 in the first place.

    Andrew Reding is a senior fellow of the World Policy Institute and an associate editor of Pacific News Service.


    Miami Herald editorial, 10 May 2002, 6B

    A lost opportunity

    Rejecting world court is a mistake


    The Bush administration this week squandered an opportunity to shape a just, effective world court to deal with the worst crimes against humanity when it formally renounced participation in the new International Criminal Court.

    If it had remained involved with the court, the United States could have worked to fix the flaws that the administration believes it has. Now it will have no influence on the process, yet Americans still will be subject to prosecution by this court, one of the administration’s objections to it.

    Equally wrong is the signal that the United States sends to its allies with this rejection. As when it withdrew from the Kyoto protocols to reduce global warming, the United States is now unilaterally thumbing its nose at international efforts supported by our allies. Meanwhile, we are engaged in an all-out war against terrorism where success depends in large part on international cooperation.

    Apparently, when it comes to global justice and war crimes, the Bush administration wants to go it alone, applying its own rules. The administration is designing special military trials for foreign terrorist suspects now detained in Guantánamo, for example, over the objections of U.S. allies.

    The idea for a permanent international court has been 50 years in coming. It is the next step toward ensuring that tyrants, totalitarians and ethnic cleansers won’t get away with mass murder, torture and other heinous acts — and it could be a deterrent against such atrocities, too. It should be the court of last resort for victims without means of seeking justice in their own nations.

    After the ethnic atrocities in Rwanda and the former Yugoslavia, the treaty for the International Criminal Court was negotiated in Rome. It has been signed by 139 countries, ratified by 66 and came into being on April 11. It will only prosecute crimes committed after July 1.

    Yes, there are legitimate concerns. No one wants to see U.S. soldiers, policymakers or U.S. officials serving overseas railroaded into trials that are politically motivated and unjustified. Nor is an international tribunal with unchecked power desirable. But the court’s structure provides internal controls against frivolous or malicious charges and external checks on its powers through the U.N. Security Council.

    Thirty years ago, Pol Pot got away with genocide, when there was no international recourse to seek justice. Today, Slobodan Milosevic is on trial for war crimes in a widely recognized court. The world is making progress in the human-rights field. No, the new court may not yet be the perfect agency for justice. But it can be perfected over the years. By participating in the process, the Bush administration could have better protected U.S. interests and shared in shaping the court’s role on behalf of human rights for all.

  • OICU8it2
    OICU8it2

    It is leading up to rejecting the friviolity of this circus court used by the third world ingrates to lambaste the US. Look who they want to try and for what? Do you want a one-world socialistic government and its consequent redistribution of wages and wealth? How about a world tax mediated by the UN. You have seen the use of funds there.

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    No ! Never ! The US is better than any other country, our politicians are smarter, too. They know what's best for the whole world. They are just misunderstood.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    "What do you feel this is all leading up to?"

    We're already there. We (America) find ourselves facing the very real threat of terrorism (not to mention a host of other very real challenges) with our hands tied behind our back by our own illegitmate actions.

    We have no legitimacy in the eyes of the world; not even with our own allies.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Does anybody have any idea about why the Bush is trying, to keep the US out of world courts and not acountable, could he have the same reason that he is trying to changed US Law as to what torture? To save his own hide?

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/27/1450205

    Monday, March 27th, 2006Bush Signs Statements to Bypass Torture Ban, Oversight Rules in Patriot Act
    Listen to Segment || Download Show mp3
    Watch 128k stream Watch 256k stream Read Transcript
    Help Printer-friendly version Email to a friend Purchase Video/CD


    When President Bush signed a law banning torture he quietly signed a statement saying he could bypass it. Earlier this month, Bush signed the USA Patriot Act but signed a statement that said he did not consider oversight rules binding. We speak with the Boston Globe reporter who broke the story. [includes rush transcript]


    The USA Patriot Act was re-authorized this month after a lengthy bi-partisan effort to include new provisions safeguarding Congressional oversight. The new provisions mandated President Bush to brief Congress about how the FBI was using expanded authorities to search and monitor suspects. But shortly after he signed the bill into effect, Bush quietly issued what is known as a signing statement in which he lays out his interpretation of the law. In this document Bush declared he did not consider himself bound by the oversight provisions. Bush wrote he could withhold the information if he decided that disclosing it would harm foreign relations, national security or his duties as President.

    This was not the first such statement to come from the White House. When Congress passed a bill outlawing torture of detainees last year, President Bush quietly released a signing statement in which he affirmed his right to bypass the law if he felt it jeopardized national security. Democratic Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont said the President"s latest effort represents "nothing short of a radical effort to manipulate the constitutional separation of powers and evade accountability and responsibility for following the law."

    • Charlie Savage, reporter with the Washington bureau of Boston Globe who has written several articles exposing Bush's signing statements.

    Related Links:

    Related Democracy Now! Coverage:


    RUSH TRANSCRIPT

    This transcript is available free of charge. However, donations help us provide closed captioning for the deaf and hard of hearing on our TV broadcast. Thank you for your generous contribution.
    Donate - $25 , $50 , $100 , more...

    AMY GOODMAN: We're joined right now in our Washington, D.C., studio by Charlie Savage, a reporter with the Boston Globe in the Washington bureau. He's written a number of pieces exposing these signing statements that don't see the light of day very much. Welcome to Democracy Now!, Charlie Savage.

    CHARLIE SAVAGE: Thank you, it’s nice to be here.

    AMY GOODMAN: It’s good to have you with us. Well, just explain how these statements work. The President signs the law, and then someone hands him the statement?

    CHARLIE SAVAGE: Essentially, someone in his office, a lawyer, drafts a statement that gets issued along with the signing of the bill. This is not a proclamation that says, "I'm really glad that I signed the bill; it's going to help us." It's a technically legal document that lays out how he's going to enforce the bill, what it is he says that he signed that day. And previous presidents have issued these, but they've never issued them the way President Bush has, both in terms of frequency and in terms of the aggression with which he says, ‘I am not bound by this, I'm not bound by that, I will take this law in bits and pieces, I'll enforce the measures I like, and I have the power as president and commander-in-chief to ignore the provisions I don't like.’

    And so, in this case, in the PATRIOT Act case, all the provisions in which Congress said, ‘We'll give you these powers, we'll renew this act. But you've got to tell us how you're using them, so we make sure that they're not being abused,’ he said ‘as president and commander-in-chief and the head of the executive branch, I will decide what I tell you, if anything, and that's just what I can do under the Constitution.’

    AMY GOODMAN: How often have signing statements been used?

    CHARLIE SAVAGE: Well, as I said, previous presidents have done this, going way back in time. The frequency really increased under the Reagan administration. And Clinton also issued a number of them. But President Bush has taken this to an unprecedented level. I think one study showed that through the end of 2004, there were more than 500 provisions of new laws that he had said that he would not consider himself bound to obey, just through the end of his first term. And so, he's really been aggressive about this, in a new way.

    AMY GOODMAN: How much attention have these signing statements gotten? The most recent one, the USA PATRIOT Act, which at first, well, there was a question -- there's a lot of controversy about it. Explain how that happened, the more recent one, then we'll go back to torture.

    CHARLIE SAVAGE: How the signing statement happened or how we --?

    AMY GOODMAN: Yeah, how much attention it has gotten and what it means for senators who said that they weren't going to sign off on this unless they got certain concessions, and then this eviscerating, the signing statement eviscerating these concessions.

    CHARLIE SAVAGE: I understand. Well, initially, very little attention. No one is used to paying attention to these things. These are not something that's been regularly a part of the political fabric of our country. The traditional way that it happens is if a president gets a bill that he doesn't like, he either swallows the provisions he doesn't like and signs the whole thing, or he vetoes it, because he says, ‘I can't live with this,’ and then Congress can try to override the veto or not, depending on the strength. That's how traditionally it's supposed to work under the Constitution. And the Bush team has never vetoed a single bill in the five years he’s been president now. Instead, they’ve used these signing statements to say that ‘we will take, you know, the bits that we want and ignore the other parts.’ And no one has been used to looking at these things.

    So, Bush issued this signing statement on the PATRIOT Act on March 9th, the same day that he signed the bill. But it went almost unnoticed. There were a few legal specialist blogs that sort of took note of it in a wry way. I wrote this article that came out in Friday's paper. And there was a huge response, as people realized what he had done again. But that was the first time in the mainstream media, at least, that it's received any kind of attention.

    AMY GOODMAN: Now, the previous signing statement happened over New Year's. Can you talk about that, around torture, specifically, what the bill says, what the ban on torture is about, what's called the McCain bill, and then, what the signing statement says?

    CHARLIE SAVAGE: Absolutely. Well, you may recall that there was a huge controversy in Congress last year with John McCain trying to make clear in federal law that it is illegal to torture, for a U.S. official to torture a detainee in U.S. custody, no matter where that detainee is, anywhere in the world. I think most specialists would say that was already illegal. But the Bush administration had come up with some contorted arguments about why maybe they could get around it if it was outside the U.S. border. And so, there was a long fight in Congress in which McCain was trying to get this passed. And Bush kept threatening to veto it and fought it hard. Dick Cheney personally came to Congress to say, “Don't do this, don't do this.” But Republicans came together with Democrats; they passed this overwhelmingly in both chambers. It was such a show of force in both chambers that Bush could not veto it. They had the strength to override the veto. So then, he signed the bill.

    He invited McCain into the White House and said, ‘Oh, this is a good thing. It’s going to help us with our image,’ even though he had been fighting it all along. And then, after McCain had left and everyone had gone home, he again issued another one of these signing statements. This was on the Friday, late in the evening before -- on the weekend of New Year's Eve, when everyone had gone home, essentially, saying, ‘By the way, I'm commander-in-chief, and I don't really have to pay attention to this if I don’t want to. If it’s the national security is involved, I can do whatever I want.’ And again, you know, it was New Year's weekend; no one really paid attention.

    And I saw in a legal blog, when I came into work the next week, that someone was taking note of this and started exploring it. And sure enough, that's what he had said, and that's what it meant. I called the White House and asked them for an explanation, and they put me on the phone with someone to serve as their spokesman, who said, ‘Yes, you know, we intend to follow this law, but a situation could arise where we don't have to.’ And so, that's what it means. And you know, there was a sense of outrage over that, including among Republican senators like Lindsey Graham and John Warner and especially John McCain: ‘We had negotiated this. This is what it means. We passed the law. You've got to follow it.’ And the question with both of the PATRIOT Act and the torture thing is, this is just a piece of paper in which he says, ‘I don't have to do this if I don't want to.’ But it's not proof that he's not going to do it, and it’s not proof that he hasn't done it.

    AMY GOODMAN: Can Congress do anything about this?

    CHARLIE SAVAGE: Well, that's a good question. If they have the political will, they can try to pass more, tougher legislation. They can try to withhold funding for things. They could launch investigations. Right now, Congress is, however, dominated by the same party as the President. They are not particularly willing to, or have not proven themselves particularly willing until now, with a few exceptions, to be too aggressive in conducting oversight on what he's doing.

    AMY GOODMAN: Well, Charlie Savage, I want to thank you for being with us. And we will link at democracynow.org to your stories at the Boston Globe.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/06/1451239&mode=thread&tid=25

    Friday, January 6th, 2006An Imperial President? Bush Claims Right To Ignore New Law Banning Torture
    Listen to Segment || Download Show mp3
    Watch 128k stream Watch 256k stream Read Transcript
    Help Printer-friendly version Email to a friend Purchase Video/CD


    Five years after President Bush joked, "If this were a dictatorship, it’d be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I’m the dictator,” we look at the growing controversy over presidential power and how it relates to many of today’s biggest stories: the Senate ban on torture, the nomination of Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court, domestic surveillance and the jailing of U.S. citizens as enemy combatants. Earlier this week three influential Republicans Senators condemned Bush for claiming he has the authority to ignore a new law banning the torture of prisoners during interrogations. [includes rush transcript]


    Three influential Republicans Senators are condemning President Bush for claiming he has the authority to ignore a new law banning the torture of prisoners during interrogations. Bush signed the torture ban just last week. But he also quietly issued what is known as a signing statement in which he lays out his interpretation of the new law. In this document Bush declared that he will view the interrogation limits in the context of his broader powers to protect national security. Legal experts say this means Bush believes he can waive the anti-torture restrictions. This is not sitting well with some Republican Senators, including John Warner, who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee, John McCain and Lindsey Graham.

    Graham told the Boston Globe, "I do not believe that any political figure in the country has the ability to set aside any law of armed conflict that we have adopted or treaties that we have ratified."

    This marks the latest example of a growing divide between Congress and the White House over the extent of the president’s power. This question has factored into the debates on a number of key issues: the president’s order for the National Security Agency to conduct domestic spying operations without legally required warrants; the administration’s covert program of kidnapping wanted individuals overseas known as extraordinary rendition; the president’s policy of detaining U.S. citizens without charges claiming they are enemy combatants; and the president’s declaration that the Geneva Conventions do not apply to suspected members of Al Qaeda. Last month President Bush defended bypassing the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance or FISA Court to directly order the NSA to eavesdrop on phone and email conversations inside the country.

    • President Bush: "We use FISA still -- you're referring to the FISA court in your question -- of course, we use FISAs. But FISA is for long-term monitoring. What is needed in order to protect the American people is the ability to move quickly to detect. Now, having suggested this idea, I then, obviously, went to the question, is it legal to do so? I am -- I swore to uphold the laws. Do I have the legal authority to do this? And the answer is, absolutely."

    Vice President Dick Cheney and others have long defended such executive power. Cheney told reporters earlier this week ""I believe in a strong, robust executive authority, and I think that the world we live in demands it."

    Ever since the Sept. 11 attacks, legal experts within the Justice Department have claimed the president has near imperial powers. Shortly after the attacks Justice Department attorney John Yoo wrote that Congress could not place "limits on the president’s determinations as to any terrorist threat, the amount of military force to be used in response, or the method, timing and nature of the response." Yoo went on to write "These decisions under our Constitution, are for the president alone to make."

    At the time Yoo was the deputy assistant attorney general in the Office of Legal Counsel at the Justice Department. He is now a law professor at the University of California, Berkeley.

    But on several occasions the courts have expressed reservations about the president seizing such powers.

    Last year Sandra Day O’Connor said "A state of war is not a blank check for the president when it comes to the rights of the nation’s citizens."

    As for President Bush he once suggested in jest that it would be easier if he were a dictator. This is what the President-elect said five years ago during his first visit to Capitol Hill following the 2000 election.

    • President Bush: “If this were a dictatorship, it’d be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I’m the dictator."

    Today we are going to examine the issue of presidential powers with two guests:

    • David Golove, New York University law professor who specializes in executive power issues.
    • Scott Horton, chairman of the International Law Committee of the New York City Bar Association and adjunct Professor at Columbia University.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Click on the stream and what this video in the above post.

  • Tyrone van leyen
    Tyrone van leyen

    http://us.video.aol.com/player/launcher?ar=us_en_video_748x541_full&mode=1&pmmsid=1916659 Ya good idea Frank. Lets arrest ouselves while these nice guys kill us. This guys American too. He thinks the same way about the evil states

  • Junction-Guy
    Junction-Guy

    No, but the Watchtower Society should be tried for crimes against humanity in the international court.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit