Many believe that defending the Jehovah's Witnesses or praising it for the accomplishments of the organization is idolizing the WT. But aren't we really praising Jehovah when we praise what the organization has accomplished. Perhaps someone does not follow their praise of the organization by saying how Jehovah deserves the credit but no doubt many understand that that is to be assumed. That goes without saying.
If I owned a large company that did many good things and people praised my company, I would be glad. And if that company was named 3rdwitnesses Company, then everytime my company was praised my name would be said and I would be praised as well. Would I be angry that someone doesn't follow every comment about my company with the words, 'All credit should go to 3rdwitness.'? Praising what my company has done is praising me also. That goes without saying.
This being said I am thoroughly ashamed of myself for ever 'listening' to the WT bashers. I should have known from the start that it was mostly lies. From the NGO to the child abuse policy of the WTS. It is all of it twisted to discredit JWs and I can see that now, whereas when I first began to read about it, I considered that it might be and probably was true. It is sad that so many come to the "JW" sites and are misled and their faith is thrown down by apostate reasonings to the point that they stand up against the WTS and the local elders as if they definitely have the truth beyond a shadow of a doubt and have been 'enlightened' to such an extent that they are so wise and so all knowing and they must stand up for the truth and for Jehovah otherwise they would be a liar and a sharer in the sins of the WT and they are so righteous and could never do such a thing as that. Meanwhile, what are many (not all) doing in their personal life? Practicing works of the flesh? But 'oh no, I can not stand by and be a part of such a lying and reproachful organization. I have a zeal against wrongdoing beyond compare.'
Acknowledging the organization that Jehovah is using to bring people the truth on earth takes humility in itself. Prideful and self righteous ones do not want to be in subjection to anyone. Oh, except for 'Jehovah and his son Jesus.' Which is actually just a way to say, 'I am too proud and too righteous to listen to any organization of imperfect men.' It is easy to be in subjection to an invisible being when we can merely interpret His words to suit what we wish to do. Will a noble subject himself to a great king? Where is the humility? But it is much more difficult to subject ourselves to imperfect men who are at best only our equal and many of which we consider not even our equal. Will a noble subject himself to a slave? That would take great humility.
Should we defend and acknowledge Jehovah's organization on earth? I believe so. Do I believe that it is perfect? No. Do I follow it blindly? No. By being in subjection to the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses are we committing idolatry or are we showing humility and acknowledging Jehovah's headship? I believe it is the latter.
If we are not able to say to others, 'Look at the organization of JWs. They preach the good news of the Kingdom. They make known Jehovah's name. They have unity and love and do not kill each other in war. They do not have paid clergymen. They remove unclean practicers of the works of the flesh. and so on. Now look at the other religious organizations. Are they doing those things? Which do you suppose has Jehovah's blessings?" then the question is how can we point out to persons the organization that God is using today, His household?
Are we praising (not worshipping) the organization by telling of its accomplishments? Surely we are. How has the organization been able to accomplish what it has? Of course it is Jehovah. Pointing out the accomplishments of the organization is one way of helping persons see where Jehovah's people are gathering today, the people as a whole that he has blessed with truths from the Bible.
reader: Let's just say that I vehemently disagree with you regarding the WT[?] abuse policy (lived through that personally) and the NGO thingy as well as the idolatry. But let's leave it at that and still be friends.
Of course we will still be friends. I do not take exception to anyone believing that the WT is or were wrong for being an NGO. What I find to show a total lack of humility is when a person insists that they are absolutely right and the WTS is not only wrong but that they are outright liars about the whole matter. And so a person feels the need to challenge the WTS and the elders on the matter to the point of insisting that he is right and the WTS is wrong and thus DFing takes. Lack of humility will not allow them to even consider that they may just be wrong or that Jehovah will handle the matter in his due time. Not only do they get themselves dfed but they encourage others to do the same by both their example and their praise of others who take such a stance against the WTS.
But as a side point I would be interested to know where you feel I am wrong in what I wrote in the blog about the WTS as a NGO. To date I have not had one person try to overcome any of my points. Watchman was so quick to write an entire essay pointing out the faulty reasoning of a person who previously defended the WT as a NGO. He went point by point explaining how he was wrong. Yet, he totally ignores my defense of the WT as a NGO. And he wants to silence it all together by removing anyone who puts a link to it on his website and removing the link as well. Go put on link to it on the paradise cafe and see what happens to you or the link. But go put a link to some apostate sight and see that it is received without question. My question is why? What is he afraid of? That someone might see that the facts are being twisted and thus his book that has been sent off to be published already and cannot be changed will be full of inaccuracies and deceptions? You tell me. Is my essay written so poorly that it does not even have to be pointed out where I am inaccurate because it is obvious to all? If that is the case, then why was the link removed from the cafe and the person who put the link on removed without further ado? After all, it is so badly written and offers no proof so what would it matter if anyone read it. I also put the link on the Son of comforts site where it asked for comments. Well guess what? The next day my comment was removed and comments were not even allowed (at least temporarily). Is there something sinister here that is not readily seen? Time tells all tales.
3RD WITNESS RAMBLINGS
by whereami 26 Replies latest jw friends
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whereami
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Leolaia
The Watchtower says to put faith in the organization:
*** w79 3/1 p. 18 Faith in Jehovah’s Victorious Organization ***
The desire to share with Jesus Christ in the vindication of Jehovah’s universal sovereignty became a most powerful motivating force in the lives of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It strengthened them to endure the worst persecution that ever befell Jehovah’s Witnesses —- during World War II. So Jehovah’s visible organization came off victorious once again to his vindication. For dedicated, baptized persons to share in that victory, what did it take? Faith in Jehovah’s theocratic organization.
The Bible however says that one must have faith in Jesus Christ in order to share in Christ's victory:
(John 7:37-38) . . .Now on the last day, the great day of the festival, Jesus was standing up and he cried out, saying: "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. He that puts faith in me, just as the Scripture has said, 'Out from his inmost part streams of living water will flow.' ". . .
(Romans 10:9) . . .For if you publicly declare that 'word in your own mouth,' that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. . .
(Galatians 2:15-16) . . .We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners from the nations, knowing as we do that a man is declared righteous, not due to works of law, but only through faith toward Christ Jesus, even we have put our faith in Christ Jesus, that we may be declared righteous due to faith toward Christ, and not due to works of law, because due to works of law no flesh will be declared righteous. . .
(Galatians 3:26-28) . . .The purpose was that the blessing of Abraham might come to be by means of Jesus Christ for the nations, that we might receive the promised spirit through our faith. . . .YOU are all, in fact, sons of God through YOUR faith in Christ Jesus. . .Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, YOU are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise.
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Arthur
If it is acceptable to give praise and allegiance to an organization, then it is equally acceptable for Catholics to give praise and allegiance to the Vatican. After all, despite it's problems, the Catholic Church has done many "fine works" such as building schools, hospitals, and engages is large charity projects. Catholics could reason that despite all of the "Catholic Church bashers" that try to detract from their organization, they will continue to be obedient to the Pope and focus on the "fine works" of their holy church.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
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bluesbreaker59
Hell, Hitler, did some fine things for Germany at one point too, he just got a little "misguided"...
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sir82
They preach the good news of the Kingdom.
They preach that God will cure poverty, disease, injustice, oppression, etc. by killing every non-JW who lives in poverty, suffers from disease, is a victim of oppression & injustice, etc.
If I promised to "cure cancer" by killing every person in the world who has cancer...would that be "good news"?
They make known Jehovah's name.
How many persons in India, China, Indonesia, close to 1/2 the world's population, know Jehovah's name? By my rough calculations, thre are about 35,000 JWs in those countries, who have the task of preaching to 3 billion+ persons.
They have unity and love and do not kill each other in war.
Unity? Or conformity enforced by the threat of absolute cutting off of all familial and social contact?
How would you define the difference between the 2 concepts written just above?
Love? I know of a sister in a nearby congregation, living with an abusive non-JW husband & 5 children. He's out of work. When she applied for food stamps, she was asked what church she attended, since "many churches have relief programs set up to assist the poor". She admitted she was quite embarrassed to say she was a JW, and there is no such program in our organization.
The OD book allows for, just maybe, congregation assistance to be given on an individual basis, but ONLY to those with "long years of faithful service" (direct quote). This sister ws D-F'ed, clawed her way back to the organization, but is viewed as "spiritually weak". Nobody in her congregation is helping her.
They do not have paid clergymen.
Congregations in the US pay $8 per publisher per year to cover CO's health & auto insurance. $8 million divided by 640 or so COs works out to over $12,000 per year of benefits per CO.
Does your place of employment provide subsidized health care? Is it part of your compensation package? How is it that the CO insurance program is not a "salary"? Does the CO continue to get that coverage if he is no longer "employed", i.e., in the circuit work?
They remove unclean practicers of the works of the flesh.
IF, and only if, there happen to be 2 witnesses or a confession, AND the 3 elders on his committee deem him "unrepentent".
How many times are there 2 witnesses to an incident of child rape?
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AK - Jeff
This being said I am thoroughly ashamed of myself for ever 'listening' to the WT bashers. I should have known from the start that it was mostly lies. From the NGO to the child abuse policy of the WTS. It is all of it twisted to discredit JWs and I can see that now, whereas when I first began to read about it, I considered that it might be and probably was true. It is sad that so many come to the "JW" sites and are misled and their faith is thrown down by apostate reasonings to the point that they stand up against the WTS and the local elders as if they definitely have the truth beyond a shadow of a doubt and have been 'enlightened' to such an extent that they are so wise and so all knowing and they must stand up for the truth and for Jehovah otherwise they would be a liar and a sharer in the sins of the WT and they are so righteous and could never do such a thing as that. Meanwhile, what are many (not all) doing in their personal life? Practicing works of the flesh? But 'oh no, I can not stand by and be a part of such a lying and reproachful organization. I have a zeal against wrongdoing beyond compare.'
In fairness to you, the author of this comment, I refrained from observing any other responses before I posted mine.
#1 - The United Nations NGO issue is not 'twisted'. The UN will confirm that the WTS belonged as an NGO for 10 years. The WTS will confirm the same, though here is where the 'twisting' begins as they attempt to justify attachment to what they call the 'Counterfiet of God's Kingdom on earth'. Please back with facts, your assertion that 'apostates' are acting in evil manner. I actually know personally many persons on this board, and I cannot name a single one that fit's your discription. Further - isn't that a 'straw man argument'? What matters is the sins of the organization that we left - anything else is a red herring.
#2 - The Child-Molestation issue is not false. It has been recently proven rather to be true in court. Further, over 7000 abuse survivors have come forward to attest that this is not overblown.
These two issues were paramount in my leaving. Your broad-stroke condemnation of those here who have left is without basis. We are individuals, most of whom have left due to the lies of the organization - not to pursue some 'fleshly desires' as you imply. IN doubt? Come on over to my house - I will show you how this apostate lives - and you will be wont to find any 'evil' to condemn, even from WTS standards.
If you joined the UN as an NGO - you would be disfellowshipped. If the WTS does so, you excuse them. Seems like the 'use of two different weights' to me. And isn't that 'something detestable to Jehovah'?
Jeff
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whereami
In fairness to you, the author of this comment, I refrained from observing any other responses before I posted mine.
#1 - The United Nations NGO issue is not 'twisted'. The UN will confirm that the WTS belonged as an NGO for 10 years. The WTS will confirm the same, though here is where the 'twisting' begins as they attempt to justify attachment to what they call the 'Counterfiet of God's Kingdom on earth'. Please back with facts, your assertion that 'apostates' are acting in evil manner. I actually know personally many persons on this board, and I cannot name a single one that fit's your discription. Further - isn't that a 'straw man argument'? What matters is the sins of the organization that we left - anything else is a red herring.
#2 - The Child-Molestation issue is not false. It has been recently proven rather to be true in court. Further, over 7000 abuse survivors have come forward to attest that this is not overblown.
These two issues were paramount in my leaving. Your broad-stroke condemnation of those here who have left is without basis. We are individuals, most of whom have left due to the lies of the organization - not to pursue some 'fleshly desires' as you imply. IN doubt? Come on over to my house - I will show you how this apostate lives - and you will be wont to find any 'evil' to condemn, even from WTS standards.
If you joined the UN as an NGO - you would be disfellowshipped. If the WTS does so, you excuse them. Seems like the 'use of two different weights' to me. And isn't that 'something detestable to Jehovah'?
Jeff
Sorry Jeff, maybe i should have made myself clear. These are not my ramblings, but 3RD WITNESSES. -
AK - Jeff
Sorry Jeff, maybe i should have made myself clear. These are not my ramblings, but 3RD WITNESSES.
Sorry whereami - I did not even look at the moniker. WHO is 3rdWitness then?
Jeff
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Leolaia
He is a 607 apoogist who caused a stir on this board last summer, most notably for claiming that the city of Tyre, built on the same site as ancient Tyre, which bears the same name as ancient Tyre, is NOT Tyre, as he believes that Tyre was never rebuilt.
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AK - Jeff
Thanx Leo - those that stir shit in the summertime I often miss - since I prefer the out of doors in that season. But today it is too hot outside to do much - and a good little aposta-brawl might be just the ticket. Is he still posting here?
Jeff