Question about 144,000-- heaven at death?

by whyizit 16 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  whyizit

  As many of you know, I am not a JW, nor have I ever been. But I do have lots of questions. Perhaps there is an active JW out there that might be interested in answering this question for me.

  I know this is probably a common question out in the field. But I haven't had the chance to ask any JWs about it yet.

  I know that JWs believe that the majority of them are going to live on a "paradise earth", even though I cannot find one Biblical reference that states earth and paradise are one and the same. I also am aware that JWs do not believe we have a soul that lives on after we die. I find that teaching most confusing.

  The WTS teaches that there are 144,000, some that are still alive today, who will go to heaven when they die. Never mind the confusion I have over the fact that many of these heaven-bound folks have participated in many things that are now considered "pagan", because they did not have the "new light".....(they smoked, had blood transfusions, celebrated holidays, etc...)

  But exactly when do these folks get to go to heaven? If it is immediately upon their death, then WHAT part of them goes to heaven? If they are non-existent upon death and don't have souls, what part do they figure is going to be in heaven?

  Thanks for any help on this question!
• 

  Stealth453

  EXACTLY!!!

  You understand the dub's explaination perfectly.
• 

  skeptic1914

  Hi Whyizit...

  The teaching is any anointed who died from the 1st century on slept in death until 1918 when the first resurrection began. (The details about this is another story). After that date any anointed are resurrected in "the twinkling of an eye" (1 Cor 15:52), instantly brought to immortal heavenly life in a new 'spiritual body'.(1 Cor 15:44)

  Skeptic1914
• 

  garybuss

  What Christians call soul, the Witnesses call spirit. The anointed's spirit goes to outer space when they die. The "other sheep" applicant's spirit sleeps and waits for a recreated perfect replica body on earth after Armageddon along with the dead sinners who never were Witnesses. Then they all pick fruit and pet lions for a thousand years and then it all starts over.
  
  
• 

  Guest with Questions

  garybuss: and this is called the "Good News?"
• 

  heathen

  That's true they believe that humans are living breathing souls , the "anointed" get to have spirit bodies when they die but the dead prior to the battle of armageddon ,as alot do call it, that are great crowd prospects are brought back in new human bodies but even then they are not guaranteed eternal life .I think the good news to them is that survivors of the great tribulation will not die yet somehow survive in a physical human body . I don't see how that's possible .
• 

  yaddayadda

  The anointed are resurrected. The Christian hope is resurrection, not inherent soul transportion. Resurrection is a deliberate act by God/Christ, not an automatic happening. The bible is quite clear that the 'soul' does not survive death. The dubs have that much right.
  
  However, they are pretty screwed up on the timing of the resurrection to heaven. They believe it started around 1919 or so, shortly after Jesus' parousia supposedly began in 1914. It is obvious, however, that the scriptures teach that no one is resurrected to heaven until Jesus returns in the future, during the last trumpet.
• 

  garybuss

  You wrote: garybuss: and this is called the "Good News?"
  
  Actually the "good news" is that Jesus is going to murder six and a half BILLION people, including children and their pets, while riding a ghost horse and wearing a bed sheet.
  
  
• 

  whyizit

  Okay.

  I always had the impression that resurrection means "to stand again". What once was alive, is alive again. Like when Lazarus was raised from the dead. He wasn't a spirit creature, he wasn't re-created, he was raised from the dead literally. He was exactly who and what he was before he died.

  The resurrection that JWs refer to isn't actually a resurrection, but it is actually a re-creation of some kind, right? Some are re-created into similar beings like they were before death, some are re-created into spirit beings. Is that what you are saying? More of a reincarnation than an actual resurrection?
• 

  whyizit

  One more question on this topic:

  If all the people get resurrected, except those who have left or been kicked out of the WTS, and there is no longer death in the world, how does God get rid of the ones who reject the teachings? Since death is no longer an option, what happens?

  And how do those who have lived on into the new pure earth account for their sins? Sins they have not died, aren't they coming in to the new world with a bunch of sin in their lives? It doesn't make much sense to me. that sinful beings would be able to live on in a perfect world and teach others, when they are still in a sinful state. Or the idea that evil people, like Hitler, get to come back again, while someone who got booted out of the WTS for smoking is not allowed to come back.

  Any thoughts on that?