It's around 11am and there's a knock on the door. One of the kids goes to the door and the person there asks for my wife. She's still in her PJ's so I go in her place to find two older ladies. This isn't the first time they've come by. Usually, I'm home on Saturday mornings but for their last two visits I haven't been, but my wife knows I want to have some fun with them, so she hasn't scared them off. Well ... today was the day.
The two ladies were quite old, one with a cane. I would guess that the most talkative one (well, really the only one who said anything) would have been about 75, and the other lady would have been about 65. The younger of the two said almost nothing, and the older lady was actually very intelligent and knowledgeable. I was surprised, and I think I'll be in for quite a challenge over the next few weeks and months. Just talking today was tough, because I didn't want to say too much, but at the same time wanted to make them think.
The start their visit out by inviting us to the memorial of Christ's death. I take the invitation and we get into the "meat" of the conversation. After telling me how important this time of year is, I explain that I have only an intellectual interest in religion. She then says "an interesting fact."
"Did you know there are 10 main religions in the world, but tens of thousands of sects. Do you know why there are so many different religious sects in the world?"
"Well, I think it's because the bible is so vague about everything." I reply, of course ignoring the fact that only a handful of those 10 main religions believe the bible.
"That's right!" she agreed. She agreed? OK. She goes on to say, "People pick and choose what parts of the bible suits them and when a priest disagrees with something the church teaches, he breaks off and starts his own church."
"Well that's a good thing." I respond.
"Oh no! Look what happened to the people in Jonestown, and to those people in Texas who followed that man ... "
"Koresh." I added for her.
"Yes, Koresh. You see there's only two laws in the bible that we have to follow. Love God and love your neighbour." She then went on to explain how Jesus foretold that there would be groups that would spring up and that there would be an apostasy from the original true religion, merging Christianity with pagan beliefs.
At that point, I started talking about the early start of Christianity. I mentioned how really Christianity started out no different then the cults that she mentioned before. The Roman Emperor decided that his Empire's religion was going to be Christianity, and that in order to get the people to comply, that he added these festivals to Christianity. I laughed as I explained the lengths he went to, even digging up the site where Jesus was crucified and "finding" the cross, and having his army carry it in front of them in battle.
She went on about how Constantine really didn't do much for Christianity. "Well, what about the Council of Nicea?" I asked. "He was behind the creation of the bible cannon as we know it."
"Oh. I'm surprised that you know about the Council of Nicea." she said. Then ... she changed the subject. "Well, you know you seem like you really know a lot about bible history and the history of religion, but what you really need to do is read the accounts of Jesus life. Read Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and the Acts of Apostles."
"Well, the only concern I'd have with that is how many of the original gospels weren't put into the bible cannon by the Council of Nicea, and how much of the events that are in the books were manipulated by the Council to suit the Roman empire's needs." She really couldn't argue that as she had just said how bad the Council of Nicea was, so she started talking about Satan.
"I don't know if you believe in him, but Satan was able to influence a lot back then but ..."
I cut her off. "Well, actually I don't believe in Satan. I don't believe in God either."
Up to this point, she spoke with confidence, with excitement. When I said I didn't believe in God she went from a high ... to a low. There was an audible difference in her voice. I think I crushed her spirit. The poor lady. How will she go on.
"Well, look at that tree. So big and strong, very soon the buds are going to start growing. The tree is going to go from being dead, to alive. Of course God made it." Not a strong argument, but I worked with it.
I explained why I didn't believe in a God, and how really, Science has answered the majority of questions that we have about our origins. She then said she that many Scientists actually are beginning to believe in God. They're looking at their results, and saying, "There's something else going on here."
"Not one I've ever heard of." I responded.
"Oh yes. We have a book, and there's tons of Scientists that have said that."
"Well," I said, "how many of those Scientists are funded by churches? I went to a lecture at the University of Toronto the other day, and they explained how churches in the US are funding Scientists, they're giving them millions upon millions of dollars every year to prove creation. If I gave you millions upon millions of dollars every year to prove creation ... would you say the earth wasn't created?"
I stumped her. She knew I was right in that point, I'm sure of it. So, when I turned my head to cough, she said, "You're going to catch pneumonia standing out here. We'll let you go, but is it OK if we come back and talk to you again?"
"Of course." I responded.
"Oh, that's nice." She replied. "It's nice that you're willing to talk to us. Most people throw us off the step."
"Oh, it must be difficult to do what you're doing," I said. "Especially with all the bad publicity that you've had in the media lately. Front cover news in Maclean's with the sextuplets and front page in the National Post, mind you I think that the National Post was more of a knock against the lawyer ... ah, I can't think of his name."
"For us? Oh, Shane Brady."
"Yes, Brady." I said. "Well, it was nice talking to you and I look forward to you returning."
She insisted on reading Revelations 21: 1, 3, and 4 before she left, but she did leave.
I'm sure I missed good parts of the conversation as she was at the door for almost 30 minutes, but those really were the main parts. I think it went well, and I almost suspect that the next time she comes she'll bring the "Creation" book. It's kind of neat, because I'd say that the majority of JW's know very little about Science, hopefully she won't know that much either. If that is the course she takes, I plan on taking the book and using Alan F's review of it.
Well, that's all for now. I'll keep you updated when they come next.
Kwin