Parallels between Jonestown and WT org?

skeptic1914

How many saw the recent "Jonestown-Paradise Lost" on the History channel? I realize the suicide/murder of over 900 in Jonestown, Guyana on Novemebr 18, 1978 may be old news but I've always been interested in how cult leaders hold power over their believers. I've been reluctant to classify JW as a cult but some obvious parallels struck me:

The way FEAR was used to control the group; everything outside of the group was evil.
You couldn't openly question the leader w/o fear of reprisal.
It was almost impossible to get out once you were in.

I had read "Seductive Poison" by Deborah Layton about 8 yrs ago. She was part of the inner circle of People's Temple and provided a rare look "behind the curtain" of this wizard. She barely escaped with her life.

At that point I was still a "believer", still believed I was "in the truth" but even then could see parallels in the dynamics of Jim Jones' organization and "God's organization". Any comments?

Skeptic1914

sammielee24

I saw the same movie and I've seen documentaries on both the People's Temple and David Koresh. There are similarities that cross over into every cult - which is why they can be defined as one. I certainly saw the same patterns and control in both. The way I see it - in simplified terms - is that a)Jones' followers gave up their children willingly as a sacrifice because they believed what he told them..b) Jehovah's Witnesses give up their children willingly as a sacrifice because they believe what the Watchtower tells them. The end result is death resulting from willingness and sacrifice. In normal or mainstream religions, you are not asked to kill your children and you are not asked to show your faith by murdering your family.

I believe that the Society is moving toward a more dangerous path by publishing a magazine ONLY for the insiders to use. This cements the bond within by excluding those outside - and once this happens, anything said or done inside, can be more controlled. Abusers will often isolate their victims by moving them away from outside influences like family or friends, in order to maintain control - this shift in society methods is similar. I once questioned some friends on this. I proposed that if the watchtower hyped up the time of the end consistently and zealously, and then called all loyal friends to the Kingdom Hall - while there they promised that tomorrow was going to bring paradise earth to their doorsteps if they just lay down to sleep for now - that 75% would remain instead and be led to their deaths. They might say they wouldn't however any group that will abandon family, sacrifice their spouses and children for an unfounded belief and continually allow themselves to be removed from the world they live in - well - they will do anything. sammieswife.

betterdaze

Both promise/d a communist paradise.

Both attract/ed and actively recruit/ed the poor and uneducated.

Both regard/ed the government with contempt.

Both result/ed in many tragic and needless deaths.

~Sue

Who are you?

any group that will abandon family, sacrifice their spouses and children for an unfounded belief and continually allow themselves to be removed from the world they live in - well - they will do anything.

Great post!!!

kwr

I don't see any parallels at all. There is no leader of the JW's that has armed men keeping people on a compound in a remote jungle. JW's have a non-violent theology. I don't think it is fair to compare the JW's at all with Jonestown massacre and suicide.

sammielee24

A little quick refresher -

On Jim Jones -

Father Divine developed many techniques in his Sayville heaven. “Jones took a group of young people to meet Father Divine. When they returned Jones had brought back not only Divine’s songs, but his vision as well. Jones began to implement Divines ‘insistence on fierce personal loyalty’ into his sermons (Axthelm 55). Jones‘s meeting with Divine influenced him to the degree in which he ‘instituted an interrogation committee in the church to question anyone who dared to speak against him’ (Axthelm 55) Those who dared to defy Jones would suffer.” 18 Mind control was another technique which Father Divine refined in Sayville. He called it "conscious mentality." 26

they believed that loyalty to each other and to their cause required death. They could betray their beliefs and survive; or they could remain loyal and die. They chose death....

Let's replace this with - the Society has it's own songs; the Watchtower demands fierce loyalty and this is constantly the topic of their meetings; judicial committee = interrogation committee, to question anyone who dared speak against him aka; apostates; those who dare defy the Watchtower will suffer ie: disfellowshipping; shunning; marked; reproof; mind control is a technique that is applied by the Watchtower ........If anyone leaves the society, they are dead to those inside, for to leave is to betray Jehovah and abandon him according to the watchtower. Nothing could be further from the truth since loyalty to God does not rest inside the Kingdom Hall - Jehovah's Witnesses are brainwashed to believe however, that the KH is the only place approved by God.

Nathan Natas

Thanks to continuous and continuing research by Watchtower Laboratories, the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society has been able to push cult technology into the next millennium.

How?

You hear it all the time: people say, "The WTB&TS can't be a cult, because no single individual is in charge." It's like saying that a person talking on the telephone can't possibly be communicating, because there's no written message or mailman involved.

The Watchtower has moved beyond the outdated and old-fashioned need for a single LEADER. They have transcended the boundaries of space and time by creating a meta-entity: a "leader" bigger than any individual, yet usable by anyone in the power circle.

Not Jehovah. BIGGER than Jehovah.

Behold, the FAITHFUL SLAVE class!

Not an individual person, but a meta-person - a CLASS of persons.

THIS is cutting-edge cult technology at its finest.

As for "armed men keeping people in a compound in a jungle," I give you MALAWI.

Today's SMART cult leaders don't soil their hands with nasty deeds; they get "the devil's world" to do the deeds for them!

The practice of sociological negation called shunning and the psychological torment it causes result in many suicides each year: not all at once, but little by little, so no one notices.

Or by the practice of THEOCRATIC MEDICINE get the members to kill themselves or kill their dependant children by denying blood transfusions.

But they're not a cult. Everyone associated with the WTB&TS enjoys the freedom of the sons of God, right?

sammielee24

Refresher on Koresh - It is understood by many people, that these tragedies will happen again - it's just a matter of time.

People are pulled into the Watchtower but not told when they join, that if they decide they don't like what they hear, or they don't wish to be as zealous as the society demands they be, that they will forfeit their families and friends. By then it's too late - so it becomes for many - a choice of staying out of loyalty to your fleshly family or leaving and being totally alone. Many are unable to cope with the latter....and the end result has in the past been suicide for some. To say that the Watchtower is not violent is a basal observation - expand that a bit and we can observe that when the watchtower has the power to move people toward the death of their own families in any way- be it physical; mental; emotional or financial - they have contributed to or been a major factor in that death. And that is why a cult is so destructive - power need not be in the hands of a gun - sammieswife.

The Waco cult is the product of an apocalyptic theology, refined over decades by a succession of zealous but nonviolent splinter groups, that was seized at last by a charismatic and combustible leader. The son of a single mother, Koresh was born //Television was forbidden, and children's birthdays were never celebrated. In caustic monologues, Koresh would lead his zealots through the Scripture in sessions that could last far into the night. To cover expenses, cult members donated their paychecks if they worked outside. Older members chipped in their Social Security checks and food stamps. //

''Step by step, you give up everything in your life,'' says Lisa Gent, an Australian whose son Peter and daughter Nicole are believed to be with Koresh, as well as Nicole's two children who were fathered by Koresh. ''You begin to live for a pat on the head,'' adds Lisa's husband Bruce. Ex-cult members warn that some Davidians would do anything for their leader. Australian James Thom recalls Koresh asking him one day, ''How far are you prepared to go?'' When Thom looked puzzled, Koresh asked, ''Which of your two children are you prepared to sacrifice?''

Who are you?

JW's have a non-violent theology.

Are you joking? They have the most violent theology ever created. They not Jehovah, not God, not Jesus, put forth the notion that 99% of the worlds population will die at Armeggeden. Do they plead with their God to be more merciful? They alone are the sickest and most self aggrandizing religion ever.

If the GB could magically push a button to start the anhilation of the world, they would in a heartbeat.

Jonestown, Koresh, JW's...what they have in common is that they are adventist cults. Which makes them all capable of anything.

yaddayadda

There are obvious parallels but beyond a certain point the comparison becomes a real stretch.

Perhaps in decades to come if the organisation splintered then you might find some small clique that becomes extreme and radical like Jonestown did. But presently the comparison wears thin.

Parallels between Jonestown and WT org?

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