The original sin

by onacruse 71 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  undercover

  "You will not certainly die," the serpent said to the woman. — TNIV, Gen.3:4.

  Genesis 3: 2-5

  At this the woman said to the serpent: “Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat. But as for [eating] of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘Y OU must not eat from it, no, YOU must not touch it that YOU do not die.’” At this the serpent said to the woman: “Y OU positively will not die. For God knows that in the very day of YOUR eating from it YOUR eyes are bound to be opened and YOU are bound to be like God, KNOWING good and bad.”

  Genesis 3: 22-24

  And Jehovah God went on to say: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad, and now in order that he may not put his hand out and actually take [fruit] also from the tree of life and eat and live to time indefinite,—” With that Jehovah God put him out of the garden of E´den to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. And so he drove the man out and posted at the east of the garden of E´den the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning itself continually to guard the way to the tree of life.

  The serpent said they would not die and that they would come to know good and bad. God admitted that they did come to know good and bad and he only drove them out of the garden. They continued to live. God lied and the serpent told the truth.
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  Q. Bert

  Now, this is a question I ask in all honesty, and without any intent to offend: Are you implying that you are simply using the Biblical framework as a way to structure your life...and that, in and of itself, the Bible has no divinely unique and otherwise irreplaceable meaning?

  I try to look beyond the individual words, commas, and chapters to get a sense of the actual meaning and impact to my life and understanding.

  From my understanding, yes He has the ABILITY to see everything. Ability being the key word.

  God's omniscience is like surveillance tape. He has a way of keeping track of things, and reacting to creation when it fits his pupose and time-table.

  — Q. Bert's takes on things.
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  Q. Bert

  Support the serpent's words if you like. As for me, I stand by Genesis 3:4, Numbers 23:19, and John 8:44.

  "You will not certainly die," the serpent said to the woman. — Gen.3:4, TNIV.

  God is not a human, that he should lie,
  not a human being, that he should change his mind.
  Does he speak and then not act?
  Does he promise and not fulfill? — Num.23:19, TNIV.

  You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. — Jn. 8:44.

  — Q. Bert's take.
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  onacruse

  Now, this is a question I ask in all honesty, and without any intent to offend: Are you implying that you are simply using the Biblical framework as a way to structure your life...and that, in and of itself , the Bible has no divinely unique and otherwise irreplaceable meaning?

  I try to look beyond the individual words, commas, and chapters to get a sense of the actual meaning and impact to my life and understanding.

  Can I take that as a yes?

  I'm a simple man: give me a simple yes or no.
• 

  undercover

  Support the serpent's words if you like.

  I'm supporting the Bible's words. Is the Bible not truthful as well?
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  Q. Bert

  Both liars' words and true words are in the Bible. Context and outcomes can show which is which.

  — I am Q. Bert, after all.
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  ICBehindtheCurtain

  Q.Bert, I read your words and get dejavu, I was exactly where you are know not too long ago, until I decided to check the bible out for myself, and learned the truth and the truth has set me free!

  Research the Sumerians and their myths, do a search and find out where the Hebrews got YHWH from, find a bible that has the original hebrew words and the translation in english and you will see all the different names they used for what is now translated as God, it's a frightening but amazing journey my freind, but only when you choose to look outside the bible box can you learn the truth.

  you can start by checking out this link, the Sumerians however predate the Zoroastrians by a few thousand years.

  http://www.zarathushtra.com/z/article/biblicalconnection.htm

  IC
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  Q. Bert

  The truth certainly is very liberating. Researching the Sumerians and their myths tells me about Sumerians and those who have written about them.

  The Bible is quite clear as to how Moses became acquainted with Jehovah, the real God of Truth. I'll stick with that, thank you.

  — I am Q. Bert, after all.
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  kid-A

  "Our creator is the God of truth."

  No, your "creator" is the planet you live on and you are here due to millions of years of biological evolution. Since you obviously wont accept that fact, even if you choose to believe a silly creation myth written by ignorant, superstitious and barbaric desert nomads 2000 years ago, if your god created the universe and all its contents, he is ultimately responsible for evil as well.

  "If we can't believe the Bible, what else is there that we can go on?"

  I suggest you put down a silly book of mythology written 2000 years ago and try using your brain.

  "My belief in God's Word allows me to keep my bearings and make a more sensible life for myself."

  How very sad. I guess you cant believe in yourself, so you must project your human insecurity onto fictional sky-gods for your psychological anesthesia. However, given that you believe the bible can provide a "more sensible" life, does this mean you support the biblical suggestion that disobedient children should be taken to the village square and publicly stoned? Taking biblical barbarism to its literal extreme would only create a "more sensible life" for a deranged sociopath, I'm afraid.

  "The more I believe it's true, the better my life gets. To me, it's about sanity."

  Hmmmm. The "more" you believe its true? It is either true or it is not. Truth is not a sliding scale nor is it a quantifiable commodity. It is what it is; a reflection of reality. Anybody with a grade 6 education is well aware of the absurd, physically impossible gibberish the bible is filled with. Having said that, if you can derive sanity, by believing in the INSANE, more power to you....
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  Q. Bert

  Say what you will. I stand convinced.

  — I am Q. Bert, after all.