Update: Discussion with my wife last night

by Paralipomenon 18 Replies latest jw friends

  • Scully
    Scully

    Good job, Para!

    The way we approached holidays was a little different, because although I wanted to quit the JWs first, Mr Scully didn't take long to realize that The Truth™ wasn't true. Once we decided that we were leaving the JWs, we did it together and started having quiet celebrations at home with our children. At first we were very cautious about decorating our home and started with seasonal decorations.

    Our first Hallowe'en for instance, starting in mid-September to be on the safe side, we bought some Indian corn and made a hanging for the front door, some gourds to put on the steps (not pumpkins!), a bale of hay and a scarecrow to put out front on the deck. One Sister™ phoned me to complain about our Hallowe'en decorations - and I set her straight - that they had nothing to do with Hallowe'en, and it was up to her to prove to me how Indian corn, a bale of hay, gourds and a scarecrow had anything to do with Hallowe'en instead of "autumn". I left the decorations up until mid-November to make my point perfectly clear. Once late November came around and it started to snow, I started putting window stickies of snowflakes and snowmen on the windows, let the kids make paper snowflakes and snowballs, and I put snowmen figurines up around the house. Again, the same Sister™ gave me grief, so I put the ball in her court and told her she needed to prove to me that snowflakes and snowmen were Christmas decorations, not "winter" decorations. The next year, we put white mini lights (Christmas type) around our deck in the middle of summer, for a nice effect when we have a barbecue on summer evenings - how convenient that we "forgot" to take them down.

    Maybe you could check out the December 15, 2001 Watchtower's Questions from Readers to get an interesting perspective on participating in holidays in a Religiously Divided Household™ (ie. JW wife, non-JW husband). Essentially, the JW wife in this situation can purchase gifts, wrapping paper, cards, do gift wrapping, make special meals, help decorate, visit non-JW relatives and friends, listen to holiday music, etc. at her husband's request, the only thing she cannot do is participate in acts of false worship. That is so vague that it is laughable, because it opens up to a practising JW the opportunity to do all those things as well, just so long as they do not participate in acts of false worship. And that is a bonus to your family - because you could sit down with your wife and ask her to read that article with you and then discuss what exactly constitute acts of false worship in terms of each holiday. Once you come to an agreement, then you can start small and see where it goes from there. I think your wife wants to have something for the kids so they don't feel left out, and things like that will help the kids not to feel so isolated - in a kind of mental and emotional limbo - where they think things associated with holidays are "bad" simply because they are associated with holidays.

    When it comes to birthdays, the way I reasoned it with Mr Scully was that I had read some research that allowing a child to have a special day like a birthday promotes healthy self-esteem, that kids use these occasions to mentally remind themselves that they are important enough to receive love from their family and celebrate the fact that they are alive. We had both seen the negative effects on our own self-esteem from being JWs, and didn't want that for our kids obviously. While the bible does say that one should "not think more of oneself than is necessary", it doesn't mean that we should think poorly of ourselves just to be certain that we aren't "thinking more of oneself than is necessary".

    I'm not a huge fan of Dr Phil anymore, but I do like his book Family First, particularly the chapters about how traditions and celebrations are important "glues" for family relationships. When I first read it, it occurred to me that by taking away holidays from JW families and replacing them with meetings, Circuit Overseer Visits™, Circuit Assemblies™, Special Assembly Days™, District Conventions™ and so on, they were (perhaps unwittingly) removing the focus away from family solidarity and putting it on loyalty to the Organization™. The bonds between family members weakens, because Organization™ demands loyalty over family relationships. If that isn't an act of false worship, then I don't know what is. Maybe you could pick that up (I've seen it on the discount rack at Chapters locally) and show that chapter to your wife.

    I'm dreading looking out my window - I got to bed before the snow started in earnest this morning. They were calling for 15cm in the Nation's Capital.

  • Smiles_Smiles
    Smiles_Smiles

    WOW! That's Fantastic!! It's amazing what true love for our offsprings move us to do!!!

    Good for yall!!!

    Smiles

  • Bumble Bee
    Bumble Bee

    Way to go!! We don't have children either, and both of us are considered "inactive" although hubby still considers himself a JW. My hubby has always loved the "idea" of Halloween, and the camp ground we usually stay at has Halloween in July, and he gets right into it with decorations, candy, masks/costumes, spooky music etc.

    This year I went out on Halloween day and bought candy, and some decorations for the front porch. I didn't tell him ahead of time so he couldn't come up with excuses why we need to sit in the basement in the dark again this year!!

    He had a great time!!

    Christmas - well I'm still working on that one! I don't think he'll go for the tree, but I'm planning on some lights and garlands for outside, and I know he likes getting the gifts, and he went to an outdoor nativity show last year.

    It's small steps, that hopefully will add up to a giant leap!

    BB

  • Lumptard
    Lumptard

    Cheers....It's nice to hear about people who are willing to communicate and compromise for the sake of their children. Well done.

  • kerj2leev
    kerj2leev

    Great News!!! Baby steps Para....Baby steps!!!

  • Crumpet
    Crumpet

    Maybe I had one glass of wine too many (ie two!) at dinner this evening - but that is the best valentines story I heard all night. I hope you will save it to share with your son when he's old enough to be embarrassed by how touching it is and your wife when she and you are sharing an evening reminscing about the valentines week where your beliefs appeared to be so diverse that you considered divorce but realised that you loved each other and your children way too much not to overcome the hurdles a cult had tried to place in the way of your great family and awesome marriage.

    My love to you Mr and Mrs P!

  • J-ex-W
    J-ex-W

    Wonderful news, Para! It always warms my heart to hear of couples 'doing it right'--working out compromises and win-win situations, to the best each is able. You both deserve kudos for that!

  • Lady Liberty
    Lady Liberty

    Dear Para..,

    That is quite an accomplishment!! I am so happy for you. When reading your story, it made me think of the research I did on Birthdays and I wanted to share it with you. It may help your wife. Here is the link: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/119521/1.ashx Notice the Pinata article...a background in Paganism, yet conscience matter?? How do they pick and chose?? In a nut shell the reasoning the article gives... people don't know about the pagan background today, so they are not using the pinata for anything but having fun. So...how are any of the holidays any different??

    Also, if the two examples the witnesses look at as why they don't celebrate birthdays, then what about the account where one of King Solomons wives was given a gift for their wedding present from her father the Pharoah. What was the wedding gift? He had a whole town slaughtered in her honor!! I never knew of that account when I was a JW. If you want the scripture, I will have to ask my Mom to help me find it as she was the one who brought it to my attention. Anyway, how are we to look at that account? Do we not hold wedding celebrations because something bad happened at a wedding??

    See here for a link on how pagan wedding ceremonies actually are. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/122847/1.ashx

    Even though Jehovah instituted the marriage arrangement, he did not institute the wedding traditions that men have come up with...PAGAN men at that!!

    Here's some info. on Christmas: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/126037/1.ashx

    Anyhow..sounds like you have a window of opportunity to talk with her..I am so happy for you!!

    Sincerely,

    Lady Liberty

  • bigmouth
    bigmouth

    I have a good feeling about this Pararalipponononamon! The discussion with your son about 'hearts' etc. nearly broke my heart when I think of similar changes of position we've had with our kids.

    They just never understood why and I guess we didn't either.

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