RAF and dh
first sentence under the title says:
(NOTE: Although I speak about women here this can easily be reversed)
The piece was written for women in a shelter but most definitely can apply to the reverse
frankie
good for you
What is marital rape?
by Lady Lee 49 Replies latest social family
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Lady Lee
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J-ex-W
While married I never had sex unless my wife wanted to. But then latter I had a couple of different GFs that I was living with that made it plan to me that they would like it if I was a little more aggressive in sex, they wanted me to have sex with them sometimes while they were sleeping, or to almost go to the ponit of forcing myself on them if they refused. When I told them I couldn't do it, and that any unwillingness on thier part would turn off my desire they actually got a little pissed at me, for not being passionate enough. To me sex with an unwilling parner be it due to a head ache or being tired is a complete turn off. Maybe if I was younger like in my 20s I could have fullfilled thier wishes, but after I hit my 40s, it takes a little more to get me going.
I want to say, for the benefit of other less experienced or confused readers, that a key point of what frankie is describing here (the feedback from certain women) is that these women were REQUESTING more persistence. They are outright giving consent to relations. These women, requesting, feel free and clear to say what they want--and what they don't want--in relations with their man, and have every confidence/ expectation that their wishes will be respected (for both yes and no responses). Not so for the victim of marital or acquaintance rape. Rape (or harrassment or molestation) is what happens when it's AGAINST the other person's will. Victims of rape aren't given option/ authority to exercise their will (often, for either yes or no). In fact, I've heard time and again that the rapist husband/ boyfriend would do it only when he wanted it, not when she wanted it--exerting double control over their sex life. frankiespeakin----------Good attitude on your part. Next time...if you know it's a consenting request...recognition of that fact might be enough to 'get you going' and help you persist--knowing that she's told you outright that it's something she wants. And we all know how to be playfully persistent about some things from time to time. It sounds like perhaps playful persistence gets them going. The playful spirit and respect of yes and no is what must be emphasized here and always.
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RAF
I know it was just to emphasis ... men always think that we Women put always all the blame on them ... I mean we know that women can be whatever.RAF and dh
first sentence under the title says:
(NOTE: Although I speak about women here this can easily be reversed)
The piece was written for women in a shelter but most definitely can apply to the reverse
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dh
i confess i didn't read the whole post to realise the topic was just aimed at women! oops, my bad
hey FBF long time no see ;)
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J-ex-W
i confess i didn't read the whole post to realise the topic was just aimed at women! oops, my bad
dh---------- Of course this thread is NOT just for women, though I can see why you'd get that thought. In fact, we need men to pay attention and get educated about these things in order for effective change to occur. And rape--marital rape included--CAN be female on male (or male on male); it's just more rare. So MEN, please, pay attention to these threads, too!!
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frankiespeakin
DH,
frankiespeakin----------Good attitude on your part. Next time...if you know it's a consenting request...recognition of that fact might be enough to 'get you going' and help you persist--knowing that she's told you outright that it's something she wants. And we all know how to be playfully persistent about some things from time to time. It sounds like perhaps playful persistence gets them going. The playful spirit and respect of yes and no is what must be emphasized here and always. Never been very good at role playing. when it comes to sex, not into domniation or submission either.
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J-ex-W
See, frankie, and it's good to know that about yourself. People need to hook up with other people who are compatible with their sexual tastes/ goals as well as other aspects of living to be truly happy. But to me, sex that is playful is about the best 'recreation' there is. I could never get into the domination/ subjugation either--well, to a mild degree, but because of the stuff I've been through (having had control over my own body taken away from me in the worst way), I don't know if I could ever be the submissive one in that kind of play. I know I would never push boundaries to humiliation/ cruelty on another person, but since that has been done to me (and not in the spirit of play), I couldn't lay back and trust...to the degree that some can.
But I can still play with the best of 'em when I feel no threat to my autonomy/ authority over my own body. This may be what your former girlfriends were expressing. They felt safe with you, and so could enter a realm of play they might not with someone else.
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FreeChick
((LadyLee)) thank you for this post. I'm so sorry for the hurt you have experienced and am thankful that you can share it here so that other women in this situation know they aren't alone. If my mother were alive today, she would've written the exact same story. I've shared some of it with you in PM's.
From my personal experience, selfish men, like the ones you describe, hurt their entire family with this behavior. There is the direct abuse of the wife, but it causes peripheral abuse. The wife is put into a survival mode, which makes caring for children and her own basic needs more difficult, and, at times, impossible. I assumed the role of caretaker to my mother at a very early age, had to become independent and tough, handle very adult situations and responsibilities, had to protect her from my father, stand between them during arguments, force my father to leave the house when he was unreasonable. So many years of abuse broke her...her soul was shattered.
On one particularly intense middle of the night situation, I forced my father out of the house, and then told my mom she had to leave. We packed a suitcase and found a safe place for her to go. She never went back. I took care of her financially and in other ways. But, she never healed...she tried...she was a fighter. She was "marked" by the elders because she left...she lost her extended family, who she cared so deeply for.
She was an absolutely beautiful woman, so caring, nurturing, intelligent, and extremely creative. I'm so proud of her for finally standing up against the religion. We were able to share several holidays and birthdays before she passed and I finally shared my entire life with her without feeling any JW judgments.
While I miss her so intensely some days, I know that she is in a better place now. Because of my thoughts on life after death, I know that she has healed now and is traveling around seeing the world and enjoying her freedom.
There is never any excuse for this type of abuse, the abuser will make you think it is your fault and after years of hearing it's your fault, you start to believe it. It takes many more years to undo the hurt, once removed from the situation. Your one point, LadyLee,
We recognize that neglect is a form of abuse. We also recognize that the "silent treatment" is a form of emotional abuse. So it make s perfect sense to me that the withdrawal of attention, whether that is emotional, physical or sexual would be yet another form of abuse.
really hit me hard. This occurred in our family regularly. My father would, without warning, completely withdrawl. It would go on for 2-3 weeks at a time. I could handle everything else, but to this day, this was the most hurtful...deeply hurtful. We would know when he was ready to start talking again, usually by some small present appearing. I hated those presents...they marked one cycle of silence ending...the next one to start again at anyone's guess. It was such controlling, passive/aggressive behavior. We were forced to always try to be perfect so as not to upset dad. It didn't matter.
Thank you mom, for doing the best you could. For the beautifully detailed clothes you made for my dolls; teaching me to read, write, and do math even before starting school; teaching me to sew, cook, crochet; opening a savings account at age 4 to give me responsible spending habits; all the late nights on the phone. Thank you for helping me build my self-confidence, self-esteem and self-love so that I can avoid the same family situation; for showing me the importance of taking care of my needs. I love and understand you more and more everyday. I know why you held on to me so tightly...I was the only positive in your life. Thank you for feeling that way toward me.
My heart goes out to those who suffer from this same pain. Please do whatever you need to start healing, to start living a fun, fulfilled life.
FreeChick
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J-ex-W
FreeChick, What you wrote about and to your mom was beautiful. --I only hope my own boys learn to look at my nearly identical situation [minus the family support] in the same understanding, forgiving, loving, and appreciative way. My kids have NO idea the effort and self-sacrifice I put into caring for them--more than very many mothers, quite honestly, since I considered educating/ nurturing them to be my job first and foremost.
They have no concept of the fact that I was killing myself to try to care for their needs well and to please a jealous dad who would, throughout all of their earlier years, contribute little on a social/ emotional/ spiritual level and would demand time and attention away from the boys that he should rightly have been pitching in to enhance. I ran interference for the boys--I was their buffer from their dad's anger against them--besides receiving his wrath and unreasoning, relentless demands upon myself [not to mention the WT's].
I am so glad to hear an adult recognize and honor that effort on her mother's behalf. I guarantee you, FreeChick, she did the best she could! You're a wise, loving, and appreciative daughter. I hope you don't mind if I borrow your words as a voiceover to my kids' faces. I need that kind of encouragement to come from somewhere.
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FreeChick
J-ex-W,
Thank you for your kind words. I've read many of your posts. I don't have children, and won't pretend to understand the pain you are going through, I do understand the pain from the other abuse.
I hope that over time your children will realize the truth in the situation and accept you back into their lives.
Take good care of yourself and feel free to PM me.
FreeChick