WHY ?

by RAF 25 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  heathen

  evolution is just a theory and so is the big bang . I heard for the first time a physics guy say that the math involved does a total breakdown while trying to prove it, rather than support it. That was on the science channel. As far as all those skulls being a trail to homo sapien there is noway to prove it at all ever. The only conclusion we can make from that is that those creatures walked the earth at some point and not that they evolved from one to another.
• 

  RAF

  Hi Heathen !

  Thanks

  Right a theorie is not an evidence ! just an hypothese

  So I guess A-kid is missing the point about the difference in between theorie and evidence.
• 

  tetrapod.sapien

  hi RAF,

  i'm sorry, but i think your comments in this thread show that you still have some growing and learning to do in this regard.

  i could go through your posts and pick them apart, and show you why a lot of things you have been saying here are not true, but i wonder if you would just reject them out of hand? i have seen several people try to show you where you are off, technically in terms of the discussion, and you created "straw man" synopsis' of what you think you read, and proceed to crtisise the *strawman*, not their arguments.

  WHY ?

  what would you say to me if i told you that you too, are an atheist?

  you see corrine, we are all atheists. do you believe in Zeus? or Thor? if no, then you are a-theistic toward those gods. you are an atheist, even though you are also a *theist* about another god.

  i say this to show you how easy being an atheist is. the only difference between you and i is that i reject one more God than you do. do you understand?

  i am an atheist, among other things, because YHVH makes *no sense* to me! he is transparent as our own creation. we made him in our own ridiculous image. i personally believe this is self-evident.

  another reason i am an atheist is because of the God of the Gaps argument. it states that as science shows us more and more about our world, the less and less room there will be for a magical god like YHVH to reside in. and we have already seen many instances of this occuring throught the history of science. evolution is one of the big ones.

  evolution and atheism are not buddys on the philosophical spectrum. evolution only explains from the moment of the first life form, to now, as being a natural event. not *who* did it. atheism is all about who did it, or who didn't because they don't exist.

  i am an atheist because of the way the universe *is*, based on what i have learned about it. it appears exactly to me like a universe with no YHVH. if a universe were to spring into existence without a conscious creator/designer, this is exactly what it would look like in my estimation, not opinion.

  one sunny saturday morning i no longer required the belief. it shed off me like old skin. i didn't even force it. it just happened after i had learned a certain amount more about the universe than i ever did as a witness. science and philosophy both did it for me. they blew my mind wide open.

  thanks for an interesting discussion.

  take care,

  tetra
• 

  RAF

  Hi Tetra,

  From the beginning I’m not arguing as if I’ve got the truth … Why, because no proof (any proof in this matter would be only what any would like to accept as it, because of there own experience, nothing more, nothing less in being right or wrong regarding to whatever leaded them to believe).
  
  Here you are telling that you have the truth and that I have to grow in this matter because science is showing us … Ooops but what exactly? … Science is showing you what you want to believe (again no proof) and like Narkissos said one do no exclude the other one.
  
  And just like the other once you are finally saying let’s say it straight: “I can’t believe in God anymore” but I can believe in scientist/science (but it still does not exclude creator/programmer – that’s only your statement from what you believe).

  Now read yourself back : you’re Why
  i am an atheist because of the way the universe *is*, based on what i have learned about it. it appears exactly to me like a universe with no YHVH.
  See … You accepted what you’ve learned (but no proof) why, because it appears like this way it is possible to existe without having a creator/God.
  
  if a universe were to spring into existence without a conscious creator/designer, this is exactly what it would look like in my estimation, not opinion.
  That’s an estimation based on your opinion (what is believable to you)
  
  one sunny saturday morning i no longer required the belief. it shed off me like old skin. i didn't even force it. it just happened after i had learned a certain amount more about the universe than i ever did as a witness. science and philosophy both did it for me. they blew my mind wide open.
  See … It’s not me who is talking for you here
  
  It’s funny how you are talking to me as if you knew better (I’m ok with that … I can be worse in doing it myself). But I too one day in just reconsidering what the bible is saying exactly to me (and not what any religion wants me to believe) I’ve realised that our story and the reason of our situation is not to read the way it’s written word for word in the bible … just like you said for your own new belief since you left the borg … I didn’t force myself to believe whatever … the message just became very clear to me.
  
  When too people do not have same opinion on something it’s all about the details … my way to check is to put the detail awayto get the essence/concept first and then the details makes sense to me or not (or have to be totally excluded)

  As an example on why do we need to forget about the details to not sink into too much information.
  
  For instance why are there poor people on this world (remember that poor does not mean lazy and lets get God out the way to talk about this as an example on why we need to forget about the details ) some might say because of politic and economy (too much details to get the point) conceptually it’s a question of state of mind (politic) and organisation (economy) I mean the same things without the systems organized by egoists and elected by an overwhelming majority … So what is the problem exactly : Egoism … so now you can get into the subject and anything which look like egoist is the reason of the sicknessif you stay on the details you will only be able to realised what are the symptoms (of the sickness – and working on the symptoms won’t lead to eradicate the sickness). Conclusion poverty is the result of injustice related to egoïsme … It’s obvious for everyone … it become less and less obvious if you get into too much details.
• 

  heathen

  Conclusion poverty is the result of injustice related to egoïsme

  What's your point here? Are you saying everybody should live some sort of life of luxury? or that government should try to eliminate poverty somehow? The only way they could do that is by taking from the rich and forcing everybody to live in same fashion.That's a communistic idea . eliminate the classes .
• 

  RAF

  Heathen ...

  No this have actually nothing to do with the topic itself

  I wanted to take a simple example to show why we shouldn't get into too much details when we want get the point on something - here for instance why poverty. it was to explain why looking at thing conceptually first helps to understand the bases of everything.

  It's actually way more easy ... to understand or analysing anything from it bases.