Anathema of Science and Religion

by LittleToe 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  LittleToe

  Just a short "starter for ten" question:

  Have you noticed how so many exJWs are polarised as to their views of particularly science and religion? Some seem to take the time to get informed, and others are content to hold onto previous [mis]conceptions (most likely coloured by the WTS) about science and religion being evil and/or corrupt. They are quite literally anathema to some, and this isn't limited to one or the other subject, but can often include both!

  It might seem unusual to lump both of these subjects together, but there seem to be clear parallels in attitudes, to me. Or am I just sidetracked because both subjects are passions of mine?

  Discuss...
• 

  stillajwexelder

  I recently read the God Delusion by Dawkins. I am trying to get a more rounded (less JW spin) on my opinions.
• 

  SixofNine

  The latter, imo.

  Could you enumerate some of those "clear parallels in attitudes"?

  Religion is an endless millenias long, arrogance filled discussion about pin heads, angels, and pin-headed people angels and gods, and science is a wildly successful methodology for acquiring usable and practical information.
• 

  dare2be

  For my own part, I find that I have settled very happily between the two in the now philosophy.

  d2b
• 

  james_woods

  I think there is a parallel attitude - they hate them both - although probably for different reasons.

  Religion - it is hated because any belief system other than the bizarre WTS version has to be invalidated completely in their mindset. Even if they did borrow many of their teachings from other wacko splinter groups in the past. They believe themselves to be the only true religion, so those other guys are all pagan liars.

  Science - this is hated (maybe not quite as much as other religions, but hated still...) because it too can threaten certain pet doctrines. In particular, evolution and proven medical science are a challenge. It seems that "science" that kind of agrees with WT ideas is kind of grudgingly acknowledged, but science is always viewed as "of the world" and suspect. As an example, look at the way they recently glorified the "intelligent creationists", even though most would say that is not true science - they liked the general idea but still put it at arms length because they didn't think of it. I guess it is not around any more, but that little blue "evolution" book contains a really clear picture of their misunderstanding and distrust of mainstream science. Including ridiculous criticisms of the carbon 14 dating process, geology, etc.

  In particular, if science looks as if it has made some development that can truly help the world, this is denounced as being "mans folly and not from Jehovah". I can still remember the great energy that was given to trashing the "Green Revolution" in the Awake magazine. In fact, most historians now say that this was a positive benefit in fighting worldwide famine.

  Little Toe, I guess we could then say that the worst of all possible worlds would then be the Christian Science religion?
• 

  LittleToe

  James:

  I guess we could then say that the worst of all possible worlds would then be the Christian Science religion?

  ~groan~ LOL

  Good point, though

  Six:
  On request, let's examine a few points of similarity between the two subjects:

  • Both have a plethora of subdivisions, but get generalised under the same topic head
  • Both have detractors that use generalisations to close down debate (internal as well as external)
  • Both have their own terminology which needs understanding accurately in order to discuss the subject appropriately
  • Both have their adherants who think that anyone not holding their view is an imbecile
  • Both attempt to make some sense of the world around us and give a framework of understanding
  • Both have "placeholders" for subjects not yet categorised and scrutinised to the point of consensus
• 

  Narkissos

  They are quite literally anathema to some, and this isn't limited to one or the other subject, but can often include both!

  Not sure about that. There are invariants in "strong rejection" of anything, granted. But I do not find this attitude against both science and religion in the same individuals too "often". Unless you take the "spiritual, not religious" slogan seriously.

  Otoh, what commonly embraces both science and religion, as well as many other "fields," is intellectual laziness, or indifference.

  Perhaps slightly off-topic, I think that many people keenly interested in either science or religion tend to be defensive about any overlapping of those fields, as may happen in "liberal theology" or "scientific mysticism".
• 

  Xena

  Have you noticed how so many exJWs are polarised as to their views of particularly science and religion? Some seem to take the time to get informed, and others are content to hold onto previous [mis]conceptions (most likely coloured by the WTS) about science and religion being evil and/or corrupt. They are quite literally anathema to some, and this isn't limited to one or the other subject, but can often include both!

  Sounds like a large number of people besides exdubs.

  Some exdubs though, at times, still seem to harbor some preconceived ideas regarding science and religion as touched on by james_woods. And will continue to argue those preconceived ideas until they are blue in the face w/o actually allowing themselves to think or experience things outside their "box". Is that what you were alluding to or is it the dental drugs still in my system making me ask that???

  ~waves at LT across the room~
• 

  LittleToe

  Didier/Diane:
  I'm not sure that indifference is the reason, given that said individuals will often argue vociferously ion debates on the subjects. For example:

  • The exJW who argues vehemently that "science" has caused more harm than good

  What branch of science? This is rarely elaborated upon. It often comes about during discussion on evolution, for example, where ignorance is brandished like a totem.

  • The exJW who argues vehemently that "religion" has caused more harm than good

  Any particular religion or denomination? This is rarely elaborated upon. It often comes about during discussions on Middle-Eastern politics or ecological tragedies, for example. Ever seen the good work done by the Salvation Army?
• 

  Rabbit

  And...

  •

  Both have their share of past Truth ™ , but, were later proven false.

  What I love about science, tho', is the quest to really prove a point with evidence. Not like religion that wants/needs to make their conclusions (evidence?) fit their current beliefs.

  What I admire about SOME religions (sorry...that still makes me throw up a little in my mouth) is the good and charitable works that they actually do -- at times. Religion does seem to try to motivate followers toward a 'higher' plane of human kindness.

  However...

  I thought I was on that 'higher plane' at one time. All of us here probably thought the same. And the people that perform the 'good and charitable works' that I admire now...may only do so because of the "carrot & stick" (or the Fist of God). OR, because they are just simply good people already.

  I know I can be a good man...without a religion or a god. So, why would I ever entertain the thought of that control again?

  Rabbit