by AK - Jeff 6 Replies latest jw friends
On another thread a poster suggested that Jw's inherently are 'Christian' due to restraint in the matter of not killing each other in warfare.
I personally view this as ludricous, as such non-violence cannot of itself mark Christians any more than could the absence of chocolate in a hot beverage mark it as coffee without question. It is a riduculous assumption that leads to false acceptance of 'facts' that are not.
Jeff
Hi Jeff
The WTS like to draw attention to the fact that their neutrality and non participation in war is an identifying mark of true chrisitanity after all they view themselves as representatives of gods government. But look at the violence and oppression they heap on their adherents.
Personally I would like to leave all matters of war to elected governments and then in that way we are at liberty to make a protest to our governments if we don't agree with what they are doing.
Beliefs and sacred things are separate inmho.
Think I'm a little off point here but do you understand what I mean.
bernadette
having a little trouble with your post title, and I don't mean the spelling of Pacifism. maybe its because you didn't link to the "other thread" you mentioned.
personally, i think it is one quality of a Christian to avoid violence and killing if possible, but certainly not the only one and not one which is exclusive to JWs nor does it by itself prove that they are true Christians. There are pacifist and conscientious objectors who are atheist, not too mention the handful of religious faiths which also preach nonviolence, thus not wanting to soldier is not proof itself that one is a Christian.
Conversely, however, I do find it a little hard for one to claim that they ARE Christian and to be a soldier.
just like to add my 2 cents worth
Conversely, however, I do find it a little hard for one to claim that they ARE Christian and to be a soldier.
For me claiming that one is a christian and being a soldier is compatible. The circumtances of taking a soldier position of defence if the government that has been elected demands it of me is okay for me
The Israelites were always going to war. And look at all the christians in America that supported war and went to war for George Bush invading a soverign country that had nothing to do with 911. True Christians are real Hell raisers. And true Christians believe Jesus is God. Not some arch angel.
Not according to scripture...1 John 5 (Amplified Bible)
1. EVERYONEWHO believes (adheres to, trusts, and relies on the fact) that Jesus is the Christ (the Messiah) is a born-again child of God; and everyone who loves the Father also loves the one born of Him (His offspring).2. By this we come to know (recognize and understand) that we love the children of God: when we love God andobey His commands (orders, charges)--[when we keep His ordinances and are mindful of His precepts and His teaching].
3. For the [true] love of God is this: that we do His commands [keep His ordinances and are mindful of His precepts and teaching]. And these orders of His are not irksome (burdensome, oppressive, or grievous).
4. For whatever is born of God is victorious over the world; and this is the victory that conquers the world, even our faith.
5. Who is it that is victorious over [that conquers] the world but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God [who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on that fact]?
6. This is He Who came by (with) water and blood [His baptism and His death], Jesus Christ (the Messiah)--not by (in) the water only, but by (in) the water and the blood. And it is the [Holy] Spirit Who bears witness, because the [Holy] Spirit is the Truth.
9 If we accept [as we do] the testimony of men [if we are willing to take human authority], the testimony of God is greater (of stronger authority), for this is the testimony of God, even the witness which He has borne regarding His Son.
10. He who believes in the Son of God [who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Him] has the testimony [possesses this divine attestation] within himself. He who does not believe God [in this way] has made Him out to be and represented Him as a liar, because he has not believed (put his faith in, adhered to, and relied on) the evidence (the testimony) that God has borne regarding His Son.
11. And this is that testimony (that evidence): God gave us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12. He who possesses the Son has that life; he who does not possess the Son of God does not have that life.
13. I write this to you who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) the name of the Son of God [in the peculiar services and blessings conferred by Him on men], so that you may know [with settled and absolute knowledge] that you [already] have life, yes, eternal life.
1 John 5 (Amplified Bible)
3. And this is eternal life: [it means] to know (to perceive, recognize, become acquainted with, and understand) You, the only true and real God, and [likewise] to know Him, Jesus [as the] Christ (the Anointed One, the Messiah), Whom You have sent.John 17:1-5 (The Message)
1-5
Jesus said these things. Then, raising his eyes in prayer, he said:
Father, it's time.
Display the bright splendor of your Son
So the Son in turn may show your bright splendor.
You put him in charge of everything human
So he might give real and eternal life to all in his charge.
And this is the real and eternal life:
That they know you,
The one and only true God,
And Jesus Christ, whom you sent.
I glorified you on earth
By completing down to the last detail
What you assigned me to do.
And now, Father, glorify me with your very own splendor,
The very splendor I had in your presence
Before there was a world.Acadian
First off, thanks for the Chistmas card Jeff. We appreciate it a lot!
On another thread a poster suggested that Jw's inherently are 'Christian' due to restraint in the matter of not killing each other in warfare.
I don't see dubs as "Christian" because they don't go to war, but I do think the reverse almost has to be true about a "true" Christian, just by definition.
A person first has to -has to - ask what is a Christian? That means many things to many peope. But... At the most very basic level it means "To be Christ like". Whatever else a person believes about being Christian, or about doctrine, that definition has to be at the heart of it. If not, what is the Christian believing in?
I hate to sound cliche (and I really, really despise the phrase I'm typing here), but the phrase "What would Jesus do?", comes to mind.
Assuming the gospels in the NT Bible (any translation/version) is an accurate representation of what happened during Jesus' (supposed) life, then do we ever read of him advocating his followers going to war? I mean in the physical, here and now sense, not in some future spirit war where non-believers are destroyed.
I can think of only one instance where he even asked the disciples if they had weapons on them for use. The witchtower spins it as protection from animals, but even if it was for personal protection, it definetly wasn't in the context of going to war.
So, back to what I said in the beginning, "What would Jesus do?" (shudders)
If Christians are to be "Christ like", can anyone picture him prone on a hiitop, in a sniper position, eye to the scope, crosshairs across the forehead of an "enemy", and then pulling the trigger, blowing the back of the "enemies" head out with the bullet? Would he do that? Really? What is written that he said to do to our "enemies"? "Put a bullet through their head"....No, it was, "Love your enemies" - isn't that right? If you can't picture Jesus doing something, then to follow in his foot steps, a Christian, any Christian, shouldn't either.
I will never defend the witchtower, they don't deserve it, but they did have some things right in their bible teachings.
This ofcourse brings up the whole hornets nest of what do we do about the Hitlers of the world if we can't go to war and still be "true" Christians. Oops, the witchtower explains that as well. Don't be part of the world. Bible says that pretty plain. Damn, guess they got something else right.
I suppose I'm being blunt, but if you want to believe in the Bible, then you can't have your cake and eat it to.
