Terry Moshe Clam + the fellow Canuck Outlaw This is one of the best thread I've read I agree totally with you all. By the way outlaw, dub kids.......didn't really have a choice to begin with but after 4 [four] generations of dubs in my family! I finally made it out 1st by sex and then by studying all the falsehoods. K
THE WAY IN IS THE WAY OUT
by Terry 20 Replies latest jw friends
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becca1
Good logical thinking. So true.
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Terry
I think the key here, then, is that you both were able to see them because of your striving for intellectual honesty and not completely suppressing your critical thinking. I'd say those two components together are the vehicle and the road out of Dubstown.
Looking back I'd have to say my "intellectual honesty" was in a state of suspended animation while I was one of Jehovah's Witnesses. There is a reason for that.
A "true" JW is a lean, mean, fighting machine of rebuttal. If you eat your oats and tow the line that is what you are aiming to become. You meet objections and you counterpunch the way you've been taught to do.
This counterpunching rebuttal program is the mode you aim for to become a "higher up" elder or person of influence. For women it may be a bit different, but; not much different. A woman must keep her individuality away from her ego like a quarantine of matches and dynamite. You can't cross even the dumbest man in the Kingdom Hall or you are targeted.
When I was at my peak of being a Pioneer, Music Servant, etc. I was so intellectually dishonest that I couldn't see a fact if I tripped over it in broad daylight! Why? It was all defense/offense. It was NEVER about listening, considering, weighing and replying in a balanced appraisal. No. It was about thinking about how you were going to put the zinger in when the householder finished talking!
It took me TEN FRICKIN' YEARS to even determine I had a problem with my intellect!!
It took marrying a Jewish agnostic who was highly intelligent to cut me down to size. I had to be constantly confronted with the utter NONSENSE I espoused as a "world view" to get to an honest moment of consideration.
"Show me your source authority" she would say and I only had Watchtower publications to go to!!!
Until you delete the Watchtower software in your brain all the thinking programs you run thereafter are tainted with spyware and virus danger!
Being willing to listen and BE WRONG is step one.
Until you develop the humility to hear what the other person is saying and ask yourself to see it and think about it before engaging your mouth you aren't intellectually honest.
Hey, I'm still working on it!
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Terry
Terry's maxim still holds true for many birthed in. The way in was through sex (on the part of their parents) and the way out proves to be similar, with the catalyst of a Judicial Committee for "fornication"
Little Toe, this is exactly the ministry of Raputin! I didn't know you had Russkie blood in ya.
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stevenyc
Terry, thanks for the thoughts shared.
: If it isn't about what is TRUE, then, what is it about? It is about being right.
I'm trying to form an argument about how the JDubs conform to a "puritan rule" that I know is there somewhere. I can feel it. And how, eventually all puritan rites either fail and the sect is dismantled, or changes.
It is based on their golden rule of being right. Being true. And using classical western logic to prove their truth.
Any thoughts?
steve -
ICBehindtheCurtain
Terry, I am in complete agreement. I remember how sure I felt about what I believed to be the "Truth", while in service I felt sorry for the people that would slam the doors on us, because I thought "these people honestly believe the religion they are following, poor people they don't know they are being fooled" not realizing at the time that all religious people are in the same boat. One of the hardest things to do is to admit to yourself first, then others that you were WRONG, but unless you can do that, there's no moving on. To realize that you were fooled and now you have to wipe the slate and start again. But the reward of being free mentally is worth all the pain and effort. Thanks again Terry, this is a great thread.
IC
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OUTLAW
LittleToe..LOL!!...OUTLAW
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Terry
I'm trying to form an argument about how the JDubs conform to a "puritan rule" that I know is there somewhere. I can feel it. And how, eventually all puritan rites either fail and the sect is dismantled, or changes.
It is based on their golden rule of being right. Being true. And using classical western logic to prove their truth.
Any thoughts?Yes. Jehovah's Witnesses are in a pissing contest with the world at large, Christendom especially and, certainly; each other.
This contest is to show who can earn righteousness by sheer effort.
Negatively described it goes like this.
JW's give up things that other religions seem to need and this willingness to give it up makes them more devout.
Birthdays, Xmas presents, popularity, good music, etc.
Who puts in the most hours in service is also the most righteous. A pioneer is more righteous than a regular publisher, etc.
My best friend when I was growing up had a dad who was earning decent money supporting their family and he had to give up his earnings to take a lousy job of labor instead to "prove" he was serving Jehovah. (He worded for General Dynamics and gave it up to build mobile home trailers.)
The PURITAN RULE makes being a prig an enormous accomplishment. It builds righteous sourpusses.
If anybody show happiness, contentment and individuality they are FAILING! You must be dour, stern, rigid and unrelentingly serious or you are being out-righteoused.
This self-abuse builds brownie points and you get to look down on others and tell them they are spiritually weak.
It is the catbird seat at the Kingdom hall.
Roger Williams stood up and faced down the Puritans. He had to flee and start over. But, even his alternative is just a more relaxed orthodoxy.
Once a Puritan always a Puritan.
What JW's really are amounts to insufferable boors and not righteous saints.
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willyloman
Terry: Your words captured my own thoughts perfectly, as did 'choosinglife.' Lots of valuable posts on this thread.
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Terry
Everybody knows everybody else's business at the Kingdom hall. Why? Because there is a pecking order of righteousness. It is a grey scale from pure white to utterly black.
The name of the game is to find somebody worse than you are. If you can identify them and read off a litany of their pecadillos you can feel more righteous than somebody (at least).
By bringing up the names on the shit list you can talk to the other bros. and sisters about it and feel you are secure in your position.
It is kingdom of the blind and the one-eyed are kings.
Once you realize how petty this kingdom is and how enormous a price is paid to remain wallowing in the squalor of it all it remains easy to stay outside of it and feel genuine pity for the souls groveling inside.
They crawl on their belly's and eat dust there.