Big Question

by choosing life 59 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  JWdaughter

  This is a quandry to me also. Lately I have been thinking of all the different ideas of God, and have also thought of how humans are said to be made in the image of God. Well, if we pick and choose ideas or concepts of God, what about all those who have a God for every occasion, every circumstance. Our mythological gods, of Roman, Greek, Hindu, earth, animistic tradition have lots of very human qualities, from mischief, sensuality, destruction, creation, love, anger and vengence. Sometimes humans are just ornery and want people to learn from the things that happen around them-and they aren't entirely caring of what that means to others. Maybe god is just as flawed as humans. Maybe he is perfect and maybe perfection isn't always nice-maybe we are too-and have a weird way to judge perfection. Maybe I have eaten too much chocolate and am on some weird sugar/cocoa butter high. . .I am not trying to offend anyone and I don't know how much credence I would put to any of the above ideas, but if you look at even the things actually attributed to God in the Bible, he doesn't seem like that 'perfect loving benevolent' heavenly father. He seems kind of like a human with good and bad qualities, and kind of like the humans that we find that we love even when they don't always make us happy.

  Maybe, to get back to the original question, he has a mean streak. I don't know. Maybe he is just seeing how things shake out-not out of mean-ness, but out of curiosity. Maybe this is some big petri dish.

  I need some salt to go with the chocolate.
• 

  IMHO

  There is an answer to this question but in my opinion no human knows it. I've never heard a good illustration to explain it either from the watchtower or the 'world'. The reason is because no human can illustrate something he does not understand. I challenge anyone to come up with an illustration that they belive explains suffering!!! Jehovahs' love, justice and wisdom go far beyond us and therefore at present it an explanation is beyond our thinking abilities. We just don't know the whole big picture. Vinny gives a long drawn out explanation of how he sees matters and his view is most likely held by 'most' JWs. However it does not address your problem with suffering. It is true that most suffering is man-made but chronic pain as in your case is not and as you rightly say it serves no good. To say that we suffer illness and pain due to imperfection would imply that we all suffer to the same degree, surely done of us are more perfect or more imperfect. So why do some of us suffer more? Time and unforeseen occurance may befall us all. But when it comes to personal suffering it befalls some a lot more than others. On the 'bright' side we have the example of Job. He suffered more than others for no known reason to himself. Yet there was a higher reason. So it is true with us today. But one thing is for sure it's not to make us better people. Sure it helps you in showing empathy to fellow sufferers but if none of us had that suffering we would not need the empathy. There are a lot easier ways to learn than through suffering. You would not expect your child to put it's hand in the fire to find out that it is not a good idea. Adam and Eve had a simple test that did involve suffering, and they were perfect. Why would Jehovah expect anymore of us?
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  spiceant

  If God would just solve all the problems like child suffering and holocausts there would be no possibility to see how bad some people get and how good some people can be. If god solved everything, we could not do anything good because God would already have done it. And then we'd still be inexperienced and ignorant and doomed to re-do bad things. God does say that he cares about the weak and suffering many times in the bible and he will wipe all their tears and he will make their memory's a thing of the past forever, history. When a women suffers from birth-pangs she sometimes wishes she'd just die but when she cuddles the baby in her hands she forgets all the pain and suffering instantly. This world is temperory, the good will be eternal.

  Can you make a gem smooth by rubbing it in silk?

  Satan is included in the image, but WE have the choices and we cannot be cheated out of our options.Our choices are our own (each will carry his own load).

  en gard, ant
• 

  daystar

  "If nothing is permanent, how can permanence be realized?" daystar, how can a man return to a place he never left ?

  You were the one who said permanence must be realized, Siddha. Yet, permanence is an illusion, which I agree with. You are saying things that sound erudite, but yet are nonsense, and not in a good way.
• 

  aniron

  Why Does God Not Stop The Suffering?

  Why should he?

  After all most of the suffering on this earth is caused by man.

  "You made the mess, You clean it up!" as my mother used tosay.
• 

  IP_SEC

  Suffering is not bad. Nobody really welcomes it, but it is catalyst for growth. God? I dunno who that is other than me myself and I. I cant always prevent myself from being hurt. I can do something positive with the pain. Master of my own reality?
• 

  tetrapod.sapien

  totally IP, i agree.

  we need to stop blaming God(s) for our problems (suffering), and start blaming ourselves, and start fixing them.

  it's funny how so many h saps are blind to the simple fact that *they*, *themselves*, cause personal suffering and alienation, and not other people or spirit forces. and the only way to resolve these things is to grow up. and growing up means acceptance, and the conscious creation of better, smarter lives.

  peace,

  tetra
• 

  Terry

  First man projects God out of his own needs to meet his own fears.

  Then, man differentiates between himself and this (projected) God.

  When fear overwhelms, man then turns outward to the (projected) God and asks for actual help.

  Mind you, this is a virtual God and the help sought is actual help.

  The dissonance is deafening.

  Excuses must be made, else the virtual God is gone.

  We scratch our heads and ask the BIG QUESTION.
• 

  IMHO

  Why do we need the possibility to see how bad some people get and how good some people can be? If Adam and Eve hadn't sinned it wouldn't have been the case. --------------------------------------- If god solved everything, we could not do anything good because God would already have done it. And then we'd still be inexperienced and ignorant and doomed to re-do bad things. ---------------------------------------- But he is going to solve everything come Armageddon. We will still be ignorant and inexperienced then? ---------------------------------------- When a women suffers from birth-pangs ------------------------------------------- Only since Eve sinned. -------------------------------------------- Can you make a gem smooth by rubbing it in silk? -------------------------------------------- Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If gems were supposed to be smooth why were they not created that way. Man-made commericalism has put value on these 'stones' and the form in which they are presented. ----------------------------------------------- Our choices are our own ---------------------------------------------- Who chooses to suffer, to be in pain, to get ill. ------------------------------------------------- Suffering is not bad. Nobody really welcomes it, but it is catalyst for growth. ---------------------------------------------------------------- So when we're perfect and without suffering does that mean we cannot grow? We need to concentrate on the original posters problem. They are not talking about 'man-made' suffering in general but the suffering of, for example, chronic pain.
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  Siddhashunyata

  "If nothing is permanent, how can permanence be realized?" daystar, how can a man return to a place he never left ?

  "You were the one who said permanence must be realized, Siddha. Yet, permanence is an illusion, which I agree with. You are saying things that sound erudite, but yet are nonsense, and not in a good way."

  daystar, if I say you are complimenting me it would seem like more nonsense yet, you are complimenting me.