JW & NON-JW RELATIONSHIP

by TheRecordCollector 19 Replies latest social relationships

• 

  TheRecordCollector

  Hello Folk's;

  I am not a witness, but a very dear friend is. A woman that I love very dearly. However, to avoid any chance of invading her privavcy, I will not mention anything dealing with her identity.

  Currently, she is mad at me...actually, angry. I've done some stupid things, and I guess I pushed too hard, and put her right over the edge.

  Anyway, I've got to get her back into my life, and I need advice.
  I'm currently 42, I'll be 43 in November. She's a few years older than I am. I don't think that age matters when you're in love. I believe, when you're in love with someone, you're in love with someone.

  I should state here, that I believe the Watchtower organization to be a cult. I don't mean to offend anyone.... I appologize if I do. I would like to have JW friends. I like to be friends with people REGARDLESS of their religious affiliation. However, let me state this also, I do not believe in denominations. If you're a Christian, denomination doesn't mean anything.

  I've told her this. She is a very dedicated witness, and has been since becoming one as a child. She will not associate with me, she says, because I am not a witness. She doesn't even want to be friends.

  She is a very beautiful woman, physically, and personality wise. We used to work together. We would come to each others area and visit, and have a great time. She knew I liked her.... but one day she quit, due to an inconsiderate manager. She emailed me & told me that night.
  Well, I'm still there, and I can still see her there. She's been gone now about 3 month's I think...seem's like 3 years.

  Anyway, with her gone, I became obsessed with her - a BIG mistake!
  Well, as you might guess, everything went downhill from there. I asked for her address & phone number, she said "no". But did I respect that? Nooooo. ANOTHER BIG MISTAKE. I went behind her back and got it anyway. Understandably, She was mad at me for 2 months over that. I appologized. She called me at the store one day (at work), a business phone, she called me, and we talked & laughed for 2 1/2 wonderful hours! I got written up over the matter, my manager knew who it was, he said "next time, I WILL terminate you."

  I told him, the phone call "was priceless". She's been very nice, and given me chance after chance, but I always seem to say or do something stupid. Now, she says "I have my eyes on someone else". I can't stand it! She asked me awhile back after we saw each other at a concert, "Are you jealous?" with a smile on her face, like she thought it was great...I emphatically said "YES!"

  I'm not trying to change her. I love this woman with all of my heart -I told her so...and not just a meaningless line like some guy's use.
  But I feel so WORTHLESS without her. I mean I am NOTHING without her in my life. She's put up with so much crap from me.

  I told her that I would give my life for her...again, I ment that, and still do. I gave her the example, that if she & I were in a hostage type situation, I would take her place. I didn't say that to give her a warm fuzzy feeling or anything...I ment it - still do.

  About 2 weeks ago, I sent her a box of a dozen long-stemed roses. Ok, fine. BUT, I also included a note that said "Will You Marry Me". Only after knowing her for 6 month's. A real stupid thing to do.

  HELP ME!!! I need advice. What can I do? Have I gone too far? Well, I know I went "too far", but I hope not to the point of no return! I just miss her & love her. You know the saying "Abscence make the heart grow fonder"...? I went WAYYYYY overboard.

  I've never met a woman like her. I NEED her. She says I'm selfish in my wanting her. I don't mean to be...And yes, maybe I AM obsessed with her...I don't know...I just know she means the world to me.
  Am I just a hopeless romantic or do I need professional help?

  BTW, my name is Doug.
  Your helpful advice please... This letter doesn't even BEGIN to scratch the surface...and no, there is no one else - at all!

  And no, I don't think of her "sexually", that is, invision myself having sex with her and becoming involved in self-gratification...NO!
  I think that is not only wrong, and unfaithful to her, but also sick.

  She asked me one time, (a friend from my past told her), she said "did you tell some guys you were working with one time that any guy who goes to a strip club has got some mental problems?" I said "probably..." And no, I don't feel that a CHRISTIAN ESPECIALLY!...has any right in a strip club! Men go to those places for one thing and one thing only....and it's NOT because they have good food!

  I mean, ladies, ask yourself...would you want a man who shows interest in YOU, going to a strip club? Probably not.

  She is a very sweet, precious woman...I'd do anything for her. She currently is unemployed, but she REFUSES to let me help in any way. I guess because I'm not a witness. And I WANT to help in any way I can...money, ANYTHING.

  Thanks for your help and advice. Doug (TRC)
• 

  sweetone2377

  Have you ever heard the saying " Let it go, if it is your's it will come back, if not, it was never meant to be"? Let her go for a while. It may be hard for you. It is especially hard for her also. She will miss the attention she gets from you. But you must understand also that she is under extreme pressure from her congregational elders to break off all ties to you because you are NOT a Witness.
• 

  AMarie

  Doug,

  I really think you should let this one go. For one thing, I really doubt she will be with you because of her religion. Think about it...If she decides to be with you, that would mean being snubbed by her family members and so called friends in the congregation. That's quite an ultimatum to give somebody. Even though it seems like bull shit to all of us, it would be the end of the world to her.

  Most importantly, though, when you are in love with somebody, you won't let get anything come between you (like the attitude you have). There is no person, religion or age difference that can make you change your mind about the person you are in love with. She doesn't seem to be fighting to be together the way you are. Perhaps her feelings aren't the same for you.

  Letting her go may be painful, but it would probably be best in the long run.
• 

  TheRecordCollector

  Well, I've done some searching lately, and discovered this "attitude" problem. It makes me feel like a fool. I realize NOW, I was selfish. That is to say that "I" (emphasis) got in the way.

  No, I can't just "let her go", not from my heart anyway...she means too much to me. When we started out, everything was fine. Then she quit where we were working, I missed her terribly and became obsessed with her. My "obsession" is what really got in the way....

  I emailed her the other day, explaining that I'm not going to contact her for a while, that I'm going to give her some space, or as one of you put it, "give her some time" which is what I should have done in the first place.

  I crowded her - pushed her right over the edge. She's become the love of my life. But see, I BARELY gave us time to be FRIENDS!

  And yes, I know all about "brainwashing" as someone refered to it...It makes me very sad. We talked one night, she told me that she "can be a real witch" at times. I said "yes, I know...I can see it in your eyes."

  I didn't mean to, but I guess that remark "cut" a bit. She looked me in the eyes and said "Is that what you really see?" Seeing that I hurt her, my heart sank. I hung my head for a monent...looked into her eyes and said "No...when I look into your eyes, I see love."

  I never told her this, but I also saw a coldness in her eyes. NOT an evil coldness...a "lonley" coldness, a spiritual coldness. For the sake of her privacy, I'll call her "Angel" - that's my nickname for her.

  It was like the "outside" Angel was holding the "inside" Angel prisoner. It was like a front she was putting on, but yet it wasn't HER putting it on...it's like she had been TRAINNED that way.

  My God that hurt. Seeing that in the eyes of this wonderful beautiful sweet woman, and knowing there was nothing I could do about it. And the thing is I KNOW WHERE THE "TRAINNING" CAME FROM. - WATCHTOWER!

  I mean, she's been a witness all of her life...born and raised. A person CANNOT be a Witness that long and not see something wrong with Watchtower. With all the false prophessies from Watchtower, all the changes in their doctrine over the years...There are EX-witness now, who were disfellowshipped years ago, for believing things Watchtower DID NOT believe, but NOW DO!

  And all of this is inspired by WHO? - Jehovah God? - GIVE ME A BREAK!
  I'm sorry folks, but Jehovah God DOES NOT say "Thou shalt not" and then 50 years later, CHANGE IS MIND and say "Well, I made a mistake, it's ok now."

  Look, I know it's self-deception...I know you're taught, that to loose the favor of Watchtower ("God's Organization") is to loose the favor of God...I mean, good, well meaning JW's are brain-washed into this mode of thinking. I know that's the "problem" with Angel....
  It's fear - fear of loosing God's favor! Well, you can't EARN God's favor anyway! - It's the gift of God. All you have to do is accept Christ! Yes, I know Watchtower has concocked this stuff about Christ being "created", That's why Watchtower endorses the NWT! Take the NWT back to the original Greek & Hebrew...Watchtower does not even use the rules of PROPER GRAMMER for heavens sake!

  Use the 1611 King James version. The NWT is so biased, it's like reading the Watchtower HANDBOOK!

  But not being allowed to read any religious material, except that sactioned by Watchtower?! Every cult is the same way... That's how they keep you...MIND CONTROL. In CHRIST, theres FREEDOM!
  And before you asked, NO, I DO NOT BELIEVE IN DENOMINATIONS!

  Look folks, I love Angel more than any of you realize. I know I'm on the outside looking in...but I can't leave her in a spiritual desert. I love her with everything in me. I'll spend the rest of my life doing this if I have to. NOT HARRASING HER - NO!
  But in praying for her night and day. I've tried on my own...look what happened. I have to leave it in the hands of Jehovah.

  For it is not his will that ANY should perrish, but that all come to repentance, through Jesus (the) Christ to everlasting life.

  Doug
• 

  TheRecordCollector

  Dear Sweetone;

  Thanks for the advice. However, one of Angel's friends (in the congregation) came to see me. I was interested in the witnesses. I also told him what a fool I had been about coming on too strong to Angel.

  He said he would talk to her. He told me later, that he had NOT spoken to her, but turned the matter over to the elder's! I felt betrayed. About a month later, Angel & I were talking, and I told her Ihad spoken to her friend, and that he had turned it over to the elder's. she knew nothing about it!

  The elder's didn't say a word to her!
• 

  TheRecordCollector

  I'm really not. All I have met are very nice people. But I AM against watchtower!

  When I consider becoming part of something like the witnesses, I dissect their beliefs and doctrine to find out WHAT they believe and WHY.

  See, you folk's have been mentally trainned not to question the authority of watchtower. I haven't. I can see thing's that you've been trainned NOT to see.

  I don't say that to sound hateful or harsh...please don't take it as such. I say it with Christian love.

  Doug
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  LDH

  Dear Doug, you sound like a man who knows how to give unconditional love.

  JWs don't know what that is. Take it from a (former)lifelong JW.

  I hope for her sake she wants your love so bad she will ignore the years of lifelong indoctrination, but please, don't expect that.

  She has been taught for years that 'worldly' people are evil and mean her no good. So she will be suspicious even of the nice things you do for her.

  My heart really goes out to you, Doug. Let us know what happens, ok?

  Lisa
• 

  TheRecordCollector

  Doug
• 

  TheRecordCollector

  a while back, she was without a job. I wanted very much to help in any way I could. She refused. Could she have been thinking that I was expecting something in return????

  Being trainned to accept "conditional" love. (which to me is NO love AT ALL.)

  Not meaning to offend anyone, but to me...being a witness, trainned to (basically) believe in "conditional" love, is very sad.

  I've been doing study concerning WS, and it has given me a greater understanding and compassion for the Witnesses who come to my door.

  Used to, I was very harsh, it was very easy to trip them up scripturally. I thought I could reach them that way...showing them scripturally where they were wrong. But being unable to to find biblical proof for what they were proclaimming, they became frustrated and left.

  NO MORE! I know now, that they are programmed to be that way. Brain-washed. I am no longer critical to them, but patient.

  The night mentioned above..where I said that I saw the spiritual lonliness in Angel's eyes...it was burried under so much indoctrination, I barely saw it. My God that hurt.

  Again, I don't mean to offend anyone, but imagine it this way...
  Invision the loveliest, most beautiful piece of tapestry you've ever seen. Then imagine the ugliest, most vile piece of cloth you've ever seen.

  Now, invision that lovely beautiful tapesrty sewn onto the ugly vile cloth...the ugly vile cloth has now woven itself throughout the lovely beautiful tapestry...

  That's what's happened to Angel. Only I see PAST the ugly vile cloth, and see her.

  I love "Angel", and will by the help and grace of God, NEVER give up.
  She is now, the way I was before I got saved in 1980. I KNEW I wasn't saved...even though I rebelled terribly, I knew in my heart they were right...that was part of the anger I felt.
  They were right, and I knew it.

  Only thing is, "Angel" honestly believes she has God's favor. She has decieved herself in believing this, just like most older witnesses.

  Not meaning to boast...but I've cried for her salvation so hard and for so long for her, that my face has been swollen. My eye-lids wouldn't even close properly.

  I've prayed, that I would take her place, but I know I can't.
  I've told her, that if she were in a hostage situation with a gun at her head by some crazed lunatick, I would take her place. THAT I can do. But salvation is something SHE and she alone must work out. I CAN'T take her place there. And that brings tears to my eyes.

  What can I say...? I love her.

  Doug
• 

  butalbee

  Believe me, I know what you are going through!!!! I posted a topic about my relationship with a witness called "relatives and relationships" around the beginning of this month. All I can say it is hard...Very hard.

  My best advice to you would've been not to get totally obsessed with her, yes of course you love her, but if you ever want that love returned you have to back off, I'm not saying give her space, (which would drive you even crazier), but just try to build some kind of friendship--A BOND--that will open her eyes to you.

  Telling anyone related to her congretation was a big misktake--now the elders are on to her, and watching her very closely.
  Witness's have a very hard shell, almost impossible to crack, but if you do happen to somehow break through, I will tell you that they will show you the deepest, most incredible love that you could ever know! I know this, I experience this now. And it is amazing.

  But I can't stress this enough--We were friends--best friends. Witnesses aren't supposed to date worldly people, that's another dogma in their religion. And if you press her too hard, you will loose her. Asking her to marry you was a very big mistake. I'm sorry to say.

  You need to become her best friend, without the stress of romantic intentions by you to her. You need to connect with her on a deeper level--when you look into her eyes--do you know what she is thinking? You need that "cosmic connection" with JW if you are ever able to break through to their hearts.

  This is a crazy religion, and I will also tell you not to ever speak disrepectful about it to her--this cult is all she knows--all that's been hammered in her head for so long--and if you were to ever bad mouth their belief's you can kiss your dreams of being with her goodbye.