by Ade 89 Replies latest watchtower bible
EP,
You are gaslighting now.
Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” But He was speaking of the temple of His body. - John 2
God says if we believe Jesus' body wasn't raised from the dead (like you and WT maintain). "we are still in our sins".
Does that concern you ?
"Out of the heart's abundance the mouth speaks..."
@SeaBreeze, Why do you like to talk about "gas" so much? 🤭
I know Jesus died and was resurrected. Yes, I am concerned that you keep saying that I said something I didn't say. You're the one who insists Jesus never really died.
"Now if it is being preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how is it that some among you say there is no resurrection of the dead? If, indeed, there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised up. But if Christ has not been raised up, our preaching is certainly in vain, and your faith is also in vain. Moreover, we are also found to be false witnesses of God, because we have given witness against God by saying that he raised up the Christ, whom he did not raise up if the dead are really not to be raised up. For if the dead are not to be raised up, neither has Christ been raised up. Further, if Christ has not been raised up, your faith is useless; you remain in your sins. Then also those who have fallen asleep in death in union with Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are to be pitied more than anyone. But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death."
I know Jesus died and was resurrected.
I know you can read and understand the English language. It’s like you are under some sort of spell and suspend common sense when reading scriptures that don’t support your WT training.
You are simply trying to make a WT doctrine (actually an ancient heresy) fit the Bible. And, as with all false doctrines, it doesn’t fit.
I very clearly have stated my faith that Jesus was raised from the dead.
The verse you keep quoting wasn't written in English. It was written in a first century language. The English word "body" and the meaning you keep attaching to it wasn't in the original manuscript.
Your interpretation doesn't fit the leading of the holy spirit or the healthful teaching.
"Keep holding to the standard of wholesome words that you heard from me with the faith and love that result from union with Christ Jesus." (2 Timothy 1:13)
"I write you these things about those who are trying to mislead you. And as for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but the anointing from him is teaching you about all things and is true and is no lie. Just as it has taught you, remain in union with him." (1 John 2:26,27)
I don't know where you got that "dead isn't really dead" way of thinking from, @SeaBreeze, but I suggest you follow the Christ and the direction of the holy spirit rather than the teachings of corrupted men.
"If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed with arguments and debates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, wicked suspicions, constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain." (1 Timothy 6:3-5)
EP,
Here is the verse in question with Strongs numbers that anyone can look up:
John 2:21 - But G1161 he G1565 spake G3004 of G4012 the G3588 temple G3485 of his G848 body G4983.
The Greek word is SOMA. It means body.... as opposed to the other two parts of man - his soul and spirit. For instance:
And fear not them which kill the body, G4983 but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body G4983 in hell. - Mt. 10: 28
Jesus specifically states his BODY is what will be raised. That is a fact. It is clearly recorded in scripture for eternity. It read the same 2000 years ago. It will read the same in 2 years from now and 2000 years from now. You cannot change that fact, no matter how hard you try, no matter how much you dislike the fact that Jesus predicted, that while dead, He would raise his own body from the dead; it will read the same in any language.
Your interpretation doesn't fit the leading of the holy spirit or the healthful teaching.
How would you know? Only born again Christians are inhabited and led by the Holy Spirit. Do you claim to be of the annointed?
I am what I am by means of God's undeserved kindness. I have faith in the power of Christ's blood, and I believe what he teaches by means of the scriptures and the holy spirit.
I have no interest in talking to you further right now, Sea Breeze. If you insist on misspelling "anointed" despite being on the board at a "Christian" educational facility, you certainly won't be able to comprehend anything else I could possibly share with you that Christ has shared with me. I have no interest in hearing any more of the corrupted doctrines of man that you seem to want to shove in my general direction. I prefer the clear waters of truth provided by my Lord the Christ.
Cheery bye-bye.
I have no interest in talking to you further right now, Sea Breeze
Well, I can certainly understand that. I am heartened by the fact that you seem to have latched on to the concept of Underserved Kindness.
But, unfortunately I see no evidence that you have entered into a contractural relationship with Jesus "for the forgiveness of sins" - Mt. 26: 27-28 Don't you want to get your sins forgiven?
The bigger problem, as I see it, is that even if you did want to get your sins forgiven by means of the blood of the New Covenant, you would try to make a deal with THE WRONG JESUS....one that doesn't exist, one that didn't raise his own body from the dead, one that went back to the ground or was simply disappeared.
The Jesus Christians are saved by has "a name that is above every name", Why? Because he did what no one could ever do - raise himself (his body) from the dead. It is every Christian's guarantee that they will live as long as Jesus does in their own body... just like Jesus.
The apostles never taught that Jesus would receive a different body. You must know that. If we preach anything other than what the apostes preached we are cursed of God.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. - Gal. 1: 8-9
My advice is to simply find a decent bible-believing church (preferably a majority text preaching church) and just go, sit quielty and listen for 2-3 years.... make a few genuine friends at some of the pot-lucks while you are at it....Friends that may not care if you don't come all the time, but are happy to see you when you do.
The original op is dealing with the training and schooling of the so called translators, and the trust we have put in their knowledge to do a correct job of translating. An example here is , think about walking outside and it is a clear blue sky but with a few small clouds way off on the horizon. Would you rather believe your window washer who says it is going to rain in 2 hours, or an educated meteorologist, who was trained by this field to interpret the weather, who is telling you a hurricane is on its way ,so prepare. The Watchtower has no trained “meteorologist “ on its governing body, just a few window washers.
How do you know if the person talking to you about the Bible is qualified? How do you tell a "meterologist" from "a window washer"? What qualifies someone as "educated" in the scriptures? Since the scriptures were not written by men at a special school, why would a special school qualify one person more than another? Whether it's a Watchtower school or a seminary school or a secular school or no school that a person went to, what does that matter? Isn't it holy spirit that qualifies whether or not a person could understand and explain the scriptures, since the scriptures are inspired by God's holy spirit?
"I tell you today that you will certainly perish." (Deuteronomy 30:18)
Would you also say that this verse means the Israelites would perish the day they heard this sentence? Where would you put the "comma"?
"I tell you today, that you will certainly perish."
Check out the context.
"But if your heart turns away and you do not listen and you are enticed and bow down to other gods and serve them, I tell you today that you will certainly perish. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to possess. I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land that Jehovah swore to give to your forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”
Check out the theme of the Bible.
Jehovah wants people to live on the land. Jehovah swore to give the land to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. There is no "land" in heaven. For God to fulfill His promise, He will resurrect Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob here to the earth. They will live in Paradise. So will the man who died next to Jesus.
"Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise."
(Holy spirit makes it clear where to put the comma. The WT people got the comma right in this case...they just don't realize Jesus will hang out on earth too.)
https://www.4jehovah.org/the-resurrection-of-jesus-a-spirit-body/
https://truediscipleship.com/was-jesus-raised-as-a-spirit/
from the Witnessing Tips column in the Christian Research Journal, Summer 1987, Volume 10, Number 1, page 7. The Editor-in-Chief of the Christian Research Journal is Elliot Miller.
When witnessing to those who are trapped in a false belief system, one is often confronted with "prooftexts" from the Bible misinterpreted so as to appear to support their erroneous view. The Jehovah's Witnesses (JWs) are particularly well-trained to present such misinterpretations of Scripture in a way that makes their arguments seem very plausible. The Christian must learn to redirect the conversation continually back to the context of biblical teaching. A representation of how such a dialogue may progress will be given here.
A good example of this problem is the JWs' use of biblical prooftexts to argue that Jesus was not raised with His physical body, but instead was recreated as a mere spirit and only appeared in materialized bodies to the disciples for their sake. By far the passage to which they appeal most often in this connection is 1 Corinthians 15:44-50.
In particular, the JWs focus on the statement that "flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom" (15:50; all quotations from the New World Translation [NWT]). They reason that Jesus must have given up flesh-and-blood physical existence in order to inherit God's kingdom. The Christian can begin his response by pointing out that Paul does not stop halfway through the verse, but continues by saying that "neither does corruption inherit incorruption." This parallel statement shows that Paul's point is that it is the corruption (perishability) due to sin, not our being human, that prevents "flesh and blood" (an idiom for mortal humanity) from inheriting God's kingdom.
For further clarification the next two verses (51-52) should be read, emphasizing Paul's statement (which he stated twice) that "we shall all be changed." The Christian should then point out the different views that are held as to the way in which this "change" occurs. The JWs believe the "anointed class" of Christians (a special class of heaven-bound Christians which they limit to 144,000) will be "changed" like Jesus by exchanging their physical bodies for immaterial "spirit bodies," while the "great crowd" (a larger class of saved people who will live on earth forever) will be raised with perfect physical bodies. Orthodox Christianity, on the other hand, teaches that all Christians will receive the same kind of resurrection body as Jesus (Phil. 3:21), a physical body transformed and glorified to be sinless and immortal. The question must be posed at this point, which view does the Bible here support? Is incorruption and therefore God's kingdom gained, according to this passage, by taking off the physical body, or by putting immortality on it?
Once the JW has agreed that that is the question, he should be directed to verse 53: "For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality." By emphasizing Paul's words "put on," you can help the Witness to see that we must put on to our humanity incorruption and immortality, not that we must stop being human, to inherit God's kingdom. Therefore, it was not necessary for Jesus to give up his physical existence, as the JWs teach.
At this point, the JW may back up to verse 44, "if there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one," to argue that Jesus and the "anointed class" must have "spiritual bodies," which JWs interpret to mean immaterial bodies composed of spirit. In reply, he may be asked to read 1 Corinthians 2:14-15, which says that "a physical man does not receive the things of God," but that "the spiritual man examines indeed all things." The JW should agree that what Paul means is that a physical man without God's Spirit will not accept the truth of God's word. Yet the contrast here is between the exact same two words (in Greek as well as in English, as can be shown using the JWs' Kingdom Interlinear Translation if necessary). Clearly, the "spiritual" man in this text has not ceased to have physical existence; the point is that the ultimate source of his life is different from that of the (merely) physical man. In like manner the "spiritual" body of 1 Corinthians 15:44 is not an immaterial body, but one that is energized or enlivened by the Spirit in a way that it was not beforehand. And so this verse also is a prooftext for, and not against, the physical resurrection of Jesus.
The JW may then appeal in this passage to verse 45, where Paul says that "the last Adam [Christ] became a life-giving spirit." However, Christians do not deny that Christ is a spirit; they deny that He is a mere spirit, without any physical body. The issue being discussed in 1 Corinthians 15:45 is not the substance of Christ's resurrection body, but the source of its life, as verse 47 makes clear. Adam's life was natural, from earth; Christ's life was supernatural, from heaven. Indeed, "natural" and "supernatural" are excellent translations of the words which the NWT renders "physical" and "spiritual."
That Paul cannot be saying that Jesus is a mere spirit can be verified from Luke 24:39, where Jesus says that "a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as YOU behold that I have." This statement and 1 Corinthians 15:45 cannot both be true unless Jesus means that He is not a mere spirit and Paul means that Jesus is a man whose life is spiritual rather than natural.
The teachings of JWs, because they are built upon a foundation of prooftexts torn from their contexts, cannot stand up to a careful examination of whole passages of Scripture. For this reason, JWs typically do not work their way patiently through a passage of Scripture, as we have outlined above. Instead, they tend to flit from prooftext to prooftext in a kind of "shotgun" approach. So Christians seeking to witness to JWs should be prepared to respond either by giving a brief answer to the new prooftext and then returning to the original passage under discussion, or else ask the JW to wait and finish working though one passage before jumping to another. In this way, they can maintain some focus to the conversation and thereby confront the Jehovah's Witness more effectively with the true sense of biblical teaching.
Finally, the Christian should be prepared to follow up a discussion of 1 Corinthians 15 with several other passages of Scripture (such as Luke 24:39, already cited) where the physical resurrection of Jesus is unequivocally stated. Acts 17:31 and 1 Timothy 2:5 both state that the risen Christ is "a man." Peter cited as proof that the Messiah would rise from the dead David's prophetic statement, "even my flesh will reside in hope" (Acts 2:26, cf. 2:29-31) -- which could not be true of Jesus unless His flesh rose from the dead. In Matthew 28:6, the angel offered as proof that Jesus was risen the fact that the tomb was empty -- which of course was irrelevant if His body was not raised. These and other passages testify unmistakably to the physical resurrection of Jesus from the dead.
