by Butters 34 Replies latest watchtower bible
It seems to me that all the things written in the 10 commandments are good, and it seems that the ark is still with God in Revelation 11:19, so how can the commands themselves be gone?"
I specially like the 10th, where it says that wives are the property of the husband, just like his slaves, his ox, his ass, or his house.
Faraon then runs like a gazelle trying to avoid the rock throwing from an angry mob.
LOL Faraon.
Song of Solomon 8:14
[ Beloved ] Come away, my lover, and be like a gazelle or like a young stag on the spice-laden mountains.
IN other words, I was trying to find out why Sunday is the day to meet on, and why Christians have always chosen that day, when it has nothing to do with the bible other then one verse in 1 Cor 16 which is dealing with a one time only collection for dying saints.
The Sabbath was Friday-Saturday, not Sunday. Sunday was the kuriaké hémera "Lord's Day" (cf. Didache 14:1, Revelation 1:10, Gospel of Peter 12:1), e.g. the day Jesus rose from the dead, on which Christians assembled for the eucharist. See the epistle of Barnabas 15:8-9 for a likening of Sunday to the "eighth day" of creation week (which is created to replace the sabbath which is no longer "acceptable"), which the author explains "is why we spend the eighth day in celebration, the day on which Jesus both arose from the dead and, after appearing again, ascended into heaven".
Hi Leolaia ,
I think this discussion in itself shows that the average JW is not at all educated in scripture. Hence the reason they cannot break away from the religion, if you know nothing and learn nothing, your faith will amount to nothing but the service of men.
I used to enjoy reading many publications when i was a witness. However i was always told as a Jw not to read too much or it would lead me astray, especially by the elders.I found it strange being advised by a religion not to read their own books.
I believe truly where scripture states "Keep searching and ye shall find" applies to religions, and that if you truly search the scriptures and search for God, Hewill lead you out of the oppresion and rules of men,So the truth can set you free.
God bless you all
Ade
The Sabbath was Friday-Saturday, not Sunday. Sunday was the kuriaké hémera "Lord's Day" (cf. Didache 14:1, Revelation 1:10, Gospel of Peter 12:1), e.g. the day Jesus rose from the dead, on which Christians assembled for the eucharist. See the epistle of Barnabas 15:8-9 for a likening of Sunday to the "eighth day" of creation week (which is created to replace the sabbath which is no longer "acceptable"), which the author explains "is why we spend the eighth day in celebration, the day on which Jesus both arose from the dead and, after appearing again, ascended into heaven".
I disagree with this. The Messiah said that he was Lord of the Sabbath day in Mark 2:28. He said the Sabbath was made for MAN, (not Israel) and that we are to keep it holy and DO GOOD on it. Where did Sunday come into play? It seems that the later Church fathers made it up, all part of their Babylonian Trinity and other false dogma. The law was transferred (Hebrews 7:12) to Messiah along with the priesthood. Hebrews 4 teaches us that God rested on the Sabbath day, (7th day) and we are to imitate God, the author said (whoever wrote Hebrews, we don't know, it was definitely NOT PAUL). The epistle of Barnabas is not scripture. That writing was assembled in the latter part of the 7th century of our era.
The "Lord's Day" is a future reference to things about to occur according to revelation. It is not a reference to Sunday, which is not the lord's day. The Shabbat is the Lord's day of rest. He also was not resurrected on a Sunday. That makes no sense at all in accord with Jonah's "3 days and 3 nights". 3 days and 3 nights from Friday was Monday at the earliest, but since Messiah was hung on a High Sabbath, (the day of preparation being before which would be Wednesday) then he rose late on the Sabbath day just as Matthew 28:1 says....
Sorry... You are wrong on this Leolaia. Too much pagan Greek Church stuff and Ex-Watchtower stuff lingering around I think. Try Messianic Judaism out for a change. The real Messiah by the way is Yoseph's son. Not a spirit baby according to some pagan neo-platonism. Isaiah 7:14 doesn't belong in Matthew. The real true Hebrew Matthew doesn't have that verse. Isaiah 7:14 is fulfilled in Isaiah 8:3 anyway.... A sign to Ahaz makes no sense 400+ years before the Messiah is born... It's biblical ballyhoo.
hi Butters,
although i must agree that the Lords day reference is used many times with the Grandness of fulfilling the time, your arguementation runs very shallow. The wording is not predominantly used towards the final day and has been used by many of the minor prophets to show the upcoming destruction of Jerusalem and Judah for instance.
Zephaniah 1:14 carries no relevency to the Great Final day. however is clearly worded "The great Day of the Lord is near.." this day can easily be misconstrued to mean the great day of Armageddon. Now let us look back to who is to be destroyed during this great day. Zeph 1:1-6 Judah and Jerusalem are to be subject to Gods dissaproval of their actions, why ?? zeph 1:4 because the cutting off of the Baal and chemarims ( black men/priests - )is needed.
Because God was fully aware that the reformations brought by Josiah would in no way completely remove Baal worship.Hence although Zephaniah can be mistaken for a prefigurement of the Last day scenario it is actually in no way such a thing. And if one wishes to , one can draw a parallel even between the banishment from eden and the Lords great day.
Respectfully
Ade
Ade, I don't know where you were going with all that, but my point is that the BIBLE alone doesn't teach us to observe Sunday as special. It teaches us to keep the Sabbath day holy and blessed. God blessed the Sabbath day long before any human was created to try and change his special day. We are taught to IMITATE GOD and love him and KEEP THAT DAY. The bible is clear on this. How did people get so deceived?
Correct,
where i was going is that your statement concerning the "day or the lord" being the literal end day was an incorrect writing my friend.
Yours respectfully Ade
The sabbath day is a day when one and his/her family choose to offer that day to God, as with Jesus saying "keep doing this is rememberance of me " Jesus never actually necessitated that it be "that day" ie the day on which it ocurred.
Its the fact of rememberance and respect for our God and Lord.
All the best
Ade
Butters,
The Messiah said that he was Lord of the Sabbath day in Mark 2:28. He said the Sabbath was made for MAN, (not Israel)
"Not Israel" is your own paratext. You could just as well say "man, not animals" or "man, not woman" and that would be equally foreign to the context, hence irrelevant. The point of this passage is "sabbath for man, not man for sabbath" (just as in the rabbinical Midrash Mekhilta). This doesn't question the sabbath as a specifically Jewish rule nor promote its extension to Gentiles -- the context btw is about breaking the sabbath within the Jewish sphere. That most Gentile Christians did not consider themselves bound by the Jewish sabbath is apparent from Colossians 2:16f (and implicitly Romans 14).
It seems that the later Church fathers made it up, all part of their Babylonian Trinity and other false dogma.
Lol. You mentioned "ex-Watchtower stuff lingering around" didn't you?
The law was transferred (Hebrews 7:12) to Messiah along with the priesthood.
"To (the) Messiah" is again your own paratext, and the meaning "transferred" highly dubious. In the perspective of Hebrews the law was changed or removed (metatithemi, metathesis, cf. 12:27), period.
The epistle of Barnabas is not scripture. That writing was assembled in the latter part of the 7th century of our era.
You must be mixing up with the Acts of Barnabas (5th century) or the Gospel of Barnabas (14th century). The epistle of Barnabas is a late 1st- or early 2nd-century text, which was considered "scripture" by a large segment of the early Christian church -- it is even found along the (rest of the) "New Testament" in the Codex Sinaiticus. See http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/barnabas.html
The "Lord's Day" is a future reference to things about to occur according to revelation.
The Greek text doesn't use the noun kurios (the "Day of the Lord" in the full apocalyptical sense would be hemera (tou) kuriou) but the technical adjective kuriakos -- "on Lordday" would be an approximate attempt to render the nuance. In the NT this adjective occurs only here and in 1 Corinthians 11:20, in an equally "liturgical" context, for the "Lord's supper".
He also was not resurrected on a Sunday. That makes no sense at all in accord with Jonah's "3 days and 3 nights". 3 days and 3 nights from Friday was Monday at the earliest, but since Messiah was hung on a High Sabbath, (the day of preparation being before which would be Wednesday) then he rose late on the Sabbath day just as Matthew 28:1 says....
That's one possible reading of Matthew 28:1 indeed -- not of the other Gospels, including Mark which Matthew depends on. That may well have been one Jewish Christian variant of the story -- not necessarily more "original" though.
Also, while there were several Jewish Christian gospels circulating, some possibly ascribed to Matthew, the canonical Gospel of Matthew as we know it is most probably an original Greek work, depending on Mark. So "the real true Hebrew Matthew" doesn't mean a thing.
As a side note, I find amusing that you reject the epistle of Barnabas as "unscriptural," thereby accepting the main church's canon, and that you criticise the Greek Matthew which was validated by the very same canon....
