Ever wonder why so many inactive ones never actually become ex-jws (page 2)

itsallgoodnow

outlaw, I think you have it exactly right.

Gary,

Thanks. I better understand what you were getting at. I like that concept of using questions. If asked in a certain way, not antagonistically, they can tie a brother into knots!

Is "chant and tag" one brother making a comment, and then passing it on to the next brother to ask the next one? We used to do that sort of thing on shepherding calls.

I very much agree with the idea of taking notes. It gives you time to slow down and step back from the emotions, and it can be very intimidating to someone you're talking with. Nothing like reading back to someone what they acutally just said!

"He who asks the questions controls the conversation. The first flip takes control. They try to take it back, flip em again."

Sounds like good advice. I'll remember it for far more than just JW conversations.

Thanks, Gary. Care to share more?

S4

garybuss

Bluesapphire, When a person like a Witness wants not to hear what I'm saying, they'll chant. Witness's memorized sermons are chants. They use Bible flipping as a chant. If they flip their pages while you are talking, they are chanting and they aren't hearing you. Don't talk until they stop flipping pages.

A tag team will take turns. It's hard to debate two people at the same time. It takes practice to defeat that. The problem with defeating them, is they will get up and leave and the fun's over.

Yes. I ignore one and talk only to the other. When they see what I'm doing and only one talks, I switch to the not talking one. I kept a Batman and Robin team busy for 3 hours once on a 15 minute call. I had a blast. They had women waiting in the car out in the driveway. After two hours I asked them if they thought their wives might want to be invited in to use the bathroom and they said no and they stayed another hour.

Seeker, You wrote: "Is "chant and tag" one brother making a comment, and then passing it on to the next brother to ask the next one? We used to do that sort of thing on shepherding calls."

That's the "tag" but the chanting is the chanting. They use chants to buy time and to recover. They will get very uncomfortable if they aren't allowed to finish a chant. If I want the meeting to continue, I let them finish. If I'm in action, I disrupt their chants. One on one is so much better because they only have the book page flipping to use for chants and I won't let them do that. Just to add, I can tell when I'm in control when they start chanting and trying to tag. So, I see their chanting and attempts to recover as a very good sign. It's the sign I'm waiting for.

Watch a boxing match. That's what talking to trained elders is like. They jab, back off, cover, take a hit, recover, dance, and jab again. For me it's a game, like Blackjack. In playing Blackjack, there's only so many plays to memorize to play basic. Same with the verbal games the Witnesses play.

I know where they're comfortable and I make sure they can't go there. I take them to that which they must defend but that which they are not prepared to defend . . . the Watch Tower literature is one. I never go to the Bible or their trained topics like Trinity, soul immortality, or hell.

If they make a claim, like divine direction or appointment, I ask for proof. If they go to logic or reason, I tell them that logic and reason are the tools of a skeptic and then I ask them why they are skeptical. I turn everything around on them after they have made a problem for themselves.

I only use tactics of closing and argumentation on unimportant people. Never with family or important people. My tactics are ways to disarm and disrespect. With Witnesses or others who are important to me, such as in business, I don't use flips, or stalls or tactics.

I studied hypnosis, NLP, linguistics, as well as the verbal art of self defense, and all of my education has been useful and helpful. I studied the English language and then I studied my topics to exhaustion. I'm still studying and still learning. I'm a student in search of a sage.

Some of my close friends have been academics, philosophers, attorneys, and judges and they were great teachers and debating partners. They taught me that unless I can argue a topic on either side with equal competency, I don't know enough about the topic to debate it at all.

The Witnesses are minor league and they run when they're loosing. A pro will never do that. I still enjoy the Witnesses and I'd debate them every week if they'd show up.

Ever wonder why so many inactive ones never actually become ex-jws

itsallgoodnow

Seeker4

garybuss

TheKings

bluesapphire

garybuss

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