Where in the Bible does it say man has free will? (page 3)

Jringe01

There is no way we have frree will. If we did then I would use my will to fly like Superman. :-)

What we do have is freedom of choice which is what the verses quoted above allude to quite clearly.

Star Moore

Dear Lil,

Yes, it's a good topic for monday.. I have long distance now..

I don't think I need the Bible to confirm that I have free will. If we do NOT have free will, then does it logically follow that all of us are posting on this site because "God" is directing us to do so? And those of us who have left the WTBTS, did we CHOOSE to do so, or did "God" direct us to leave? Conversely, if we DO have free will, does it logically follow that we could use that free will to violate physical laws such as gravity or properties of matter, space and time? I believe I have free will, but that doesn't mean I can stop bullets with my own flesh, make time go backwards, or lift automobiles over my head. The fact that posters on this thread do not all have the same opinion leads to the conclusion that those posters have free will, and are not just acting as directed by some higher intelligence. There are admittedly physical limits to what we can do, imposed on us by the properties of the universe in which we live, and by the limits of flesh and bone. However, within those limits, we can direct our own actions and words with complete freedom. If I see that I am making poor choices, I can make choices differently in the future. Sometimes, I can even reverse the consequences of previous choices.

lovelylil

hi gaiagirl,

what I meant was do we are free will to choose to serve God or not or does God only draw some people to him? As Jesus said "no one comes to me unless the father draws him". Then also, will God draw everyone to him in due time or will only some who are predestined be saved?

anyone have thoughts on these questions? Lilly

XJW4EVR

xjw,
how would you answer those two questions you posed? Lilly

If by "will" we are refering to the ability to make decisions, then it is not a thing, but an ability. It is like the ability to use the "mind" to think. The human brain does not have a specilized compartment called the "mind." Likewise with the "will." It is not part of the human anatomy, but it is part of the make-up of humanity. Hopefully, this is clear. If not please let me know and I will try to rephrase it.

Secondly, if by "free" we are speaking in the Grecian sense of total autonomy from God, then I would have to say, "No." The reason is simple. Our decision making process is never totally free from outside influences. Our experiences, preferences, genetic predisposions, cultures, and upbringings all impact on our decision making ability. Even things like marketing impacts decision making.

In the Bible, I can not find one verse that speaks of humanity having the ability to chose or reject God. However there are numerous Scriptures that speak of humanity's consistent rejection of God. This is what Paul explains very clearly in Romans, where he says, that there is no one that seeks after God, no, not one.

The current idea of "free will" is totally foriegn to Scripture, and made it's way into CHristianity through Origen, and the like. It was made popular by Aquinas, and popularized by Charles Finney in the late 1800s. Up till then America was strictly Calvinistic it's theology.

I hope this makes sense.

PS. This is one subject I love talking about.

Deputy Dog

XJ

The bible and the will:

Rom 9:16

So then itis not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy.

Phi 2:13

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

PS. This is one subject I love talking about.

That makes two of us!

XJW4EVR

Deputy,

Those two verses speak of God empowering humanity to find Him, not humanity on its own finding God of his own "free will."

return visitor

The scripture says that no one can come to Jesus unless drawn to him by God. I don't believe this means that we don't have freedom to choose. If we come to Jesus it is because we have learned of him and about him from the Bible. That is the only way we can know of Jesus, and since the Bible is inspired of God, then we have all been drawn to Jesus by God. Have you ever known anyone to become a believer in Jesus without reading the Bible? This in no way hinders our freedom of choise. If we were shown 2 doors, A & B and asked to make a choise we would not choose C because we don't realize we have that choise. God simply shows us door C and allows us to choose. I don't see this conflicting with other scriptures.

Return Visistor

Terry

The human "will" is free from what?

You can will whatever and it means little unless your will is backed up by action both feasible and possible.

Often your "will" amounts to little more than "Well, I tried!"

You can desire and not obtain.

You can fail.

You can be misinformed or ignorant or wrong-headed and your will will distort accordingly.

If you say inside your head "I'm a millionaire" and proceed to write me a check that isn't backed by actual cold, hard, cash in your bank the check will bounce no matter what you think, say or will.

Most of these discussions of free will or even predestination center on a confusion we humans often have about the difference between reality and the contents of your imagination which you falsely label as "~~reality".~~

Reality exists even if you are dead wrong.

You can't change reality by thinking. You can often impact reality by actions. However, you have a limit.

About the most powerful a man is about changing the physical with mere thinking comes down to managing an erection!

This argument or discussion is actually about CHOICES.

You cannot make a decision unless you have choices and those choices need to be possible. The more accurately informed you are about your choices the more realistic your decisions become. However, even the best informed person on the planet cannot WILL that which is into being that which ~~is not.~~

A gay person has an identity which is formed beyong that person's capacity to change their nature. They can prevent behavior which demonstrates their nature without changing the nature itself.

That is the error of the Monk who locks himself off from the world. Removal of the opportunity to behave badly isn'tthe same as right choice. Right choice is inclination + opportunity followed by behavior which doesn't violate one's sense of ethics or morality. That is a kind of freedom which comes from self-education and a long trial of self-regulation and values informed by social awareness.

What you desire comes from the values you have formed by your self-directed rational mind. Expose yourself to great ideas, great minds and productive behavior by those who achieve positive things and you go a long way toward absorbing the same kind of motivating values which form your ethical foundation.

But, if you read crap, watch crap and spend time with under-achievers you'll be scratching the fleas from the wrong dogs.

Free Will comes down to the possible choices you make based on your value system which you discover as you grow up. You can't eat waxed fruit and be healthy although it looks real. The same is true for everything you take into your mind. The best yields the best results.

That is about as much WILL as you are FREE to have.

Deputy Dog

I'm with ya XJ!

Where in the Bible does it say man has free will?

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