To KILL or Not to KILL?

by Amazing 12 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    A tough question: To Kill or not to Kill? This is a very tough question because there can be so many variables, so many views, so many things to consider, so many circumstances, so many beliefs. Any of these can seriously conflict with others, and create a dilemma. There appears to be no single answer, no absolute standard. The frame of reference can often dictate what is done.

    Life is Precious: Regardless of who we are, our race, ethnicity, religion or lack thereof, or species, I am of the opinion that all life is valuable. No species wants to die, and all will seek to survive, whether they fight, or run in flight.

    Revenge or Justice: When we as individuals or as a group are attacked, what course do we take? What actions do we deem as merely revenge? What acts are truly acts of justice? Where is the standard? Who sets the rules? What and how many rules do we have?

    Conflict of Beliefs: It appears that those we label as terrorists are angry for crimes they accuse our leaders of, and by association hold us individually responsible -- at least judging from their attack on innocent people who have nothing to do with their plight. Our beliefs and theirs seem to be in serious conflict, and it appears that there is no way out of this tension -- as though we will always be at war until one or the other culture is gone -- extinct.

    What are the charges against us?: The terrorists cells and organizations claim that we have stolen their oil, willfully kept them in poverty, caused them great suffering, invade their culture with what they see as decadence, violated their holy land by bringing in our construction workers and military, our CIA overthrows their governments to keep them unstable, and we give aid and support to their enemy, Israel. Are these charges true? And more importantly, are these charges, if true, deserving of them killing our people as they did on Sept. 11th?

    What are the facts?: I am honestly not sure. But as I recall that these Arabian states invited us in to build their oil wells and production capability. I recall that our oil companies paid them for their oil, at whatever price OPEC chooses to set. As a result, in many Arabian nations there is little or no poverty, as all have good homes, travel, go to college in the west, and live in relative luxury. Some pay no taxes as the oil revenue is enough to run their governments.

    When we visit as workers we are confined to special camps so that we cannot infect and invade their culture. We are forbidden alcohol, tobacco, and pork products. Our women must were total coverings out in public and walk behind their husbands. And our children are ordered to leave when they reach their teen years so as not to influence their children. Our culture is severely contained as they wish.

    We build their cities and infrastructure such as airports, hospitals, sanitary, electrical, and water systems. We teach and train and educate them so they can eventually take care of these without our help.

    When they are invaded by their own people from an adjacent country, we are invited in to help because of our powerful military. We do nothing without their permission. Our children fight and die to save their lands and their oil for their benefit. Yet we are accused of violating their holy land by such terrorists.

    Our CIA has affected their government, but not for instability, but for stability because it affect the oil we buy. But, I suppose this is one area where we may need to strongly evaluate our national conduct.

    We have always supported Israel, not to subjugate Palestine, but because we were caught up in helping the Jews in their plight during and after WWII when they were homeless floating around on ships without a country, a home, a land. But in our effort to help the Jews, have we contributed to the harm of these people? Maybe we have. A Palestinian book called the Diaspora shows that Palestinians have long endured injustice as the Jews have taken over the land that they were once welcome to share with Palestinians. Is it that our leaders have not listened well enough, and in helping Israel inadvertently or carelessly harmed Palestinians? I don't the answers to these issues.

    All in all, are we collectively or individually guilty of harming them? Are we now deserving of this consequence? Is this what they really want? The Arab world seems split, but more of them seem to side with us than with the minority who hates us. Islamic leaders in America are spending a great amount of time to help us understand that these radicals do not represent Islam, a name which means Peace.

    What of our beliefs and culture: When these people come to America, we do not make them wear our clothing, or eat our food. Nor do we confine them to camps to avoid them infecting us with their culture. No, we embrace them, help them obtain land to build Mosques, and invite them to share their culture.

    Are we so decadent, satanic, degraded, selfish, and bad that we deserve to be destroyed by those engaged in Holy Jihad?

    What do we do? Do we Kill in return or not: Is any action to fight back just revenge? Are we violating the Commandment not to Kill? Are we engaged in self-defense, or fueling the flames of war by retaliating? Do we keep trying to talk? Or do we accept the support of most other nations and find some way to bring these terrorists to justice and if necessary, kill them?

    Finally ...

    What scares me Most is ... These terrorists hate us so much that they are actively working to obtain nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons along with delivery systems so they can destroy us. There is evidence already from those reporting back from some of these nations of dead livestock where they have experimented with these weapons in their testing programs.

    How will we feel if we do nothing, and the next attack is a nuclear bomb detonated in Chicago causing the mass killing of millions? Or a biological weapon released in Los Angeles that wipes out millions more? Or a chemical weapon released in our drinking water? How will any of us feel if we awaken to the choking sound of our children as they drank poison water?

    What of their plight? Many of these people do not live in wealth, especially in Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. the terrorists and the governments there keep whatever money to build weapons and maintain their military. Their people are mistreated by the hands of their own leaders, often whom they have no choice in electing. Do we liberate them from the Taliban and the Hussein dictators as we hunt down the terrorists? Do we kill as we do any of this?

    What are the answers? How can we ever know? And what if the best answers are ones we do not like, answers that require that we die? What of our way of life and culture? Can we co-exist with those so very different? Can our clashing values ever find balance? What if the only answer is for one or the other culture to destroy and make the other extinct? How can we reconcile any of this? How do we as individual citizens do what is right? How do we collectively build the right leadership that will do the right things?

    To Kill or not to Kill? Such a hard question to answer. Such a difficult question to settle on a course of action. All this is filled with so many bad possibilities, and so few good results. Dear God, if you hear us, what are the answers? - Amazing

  • JW72
    JW72

    Hi Amazing, Good post.

    However, you ask God for help at the end, why?

    Religion is, in my opinion, the main cause of all these wars. People have donated ALL moral responsability onto their religion or their God. Then it becomes a case of doing what is right for their religion, rather than what is right as a human being. It then becomes alot more dificult because, as we have seen, religion is ambiguous, and its morals are not always clear. The majority of 'good' people know what is right by listening to their hearts and using their heads. Religion is preventing us from doing that.

    Rather than flick through pages of the bible or pray to God for answers, use your heart and brain, that's why God gave you it. I'm not talking to you Amazing, just people in general. This is a BIG problem.

    I don't even believe in God(of the bible, anyway....)

    Chris

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi JW72: I appreciate your points, and agree that religion, at least the cultish and fanatical kind is at the root of a lot of these issues.

    If you read again what I said, without the entire post, it may look a little different to you:

    "Dear God, if you hear us, what are the answers?"

    I ran into a stone wall on another forum because I failed to 'properly' invoke God and thus lost some respect from a person I value. My closing question above is not in anyway meant to place all my bets with God ... but, to suggest ti Him, that is he is listening, to help us out with some answers. But more to the point, it was more of an impassioned plea, expressing my ignorance and frustration, than anything else to do with God's hand of help. For were God to really help, maybe he could have gently taking control of those planes, and placed them down where the police cold have arrested the bad guys. And then wiht his booming voice state His feelings for us and let us know that he helped us --- and that we need to now solve the issue before another event happens. But, I have no illusions that God will ever do such a thing for us --- as the evidence strongly suggest, that when it comes to human affairs on a large scale, he seems content to stay out of our plight. He seems to be more interested in individuals on a much smaller scale --- that is unless I am missing something --- and I may very well be. Thanks again for your comments. - Amazing

  • Introspection
    Introspection

    JW72,

    The majority of 'good' people know what is right by listening to their hearts and using their heads. Religion is preventing us from doing that.

    People have donated ALL moral responsability onto their religion or their God.

    From what you've said in the second statement, it sounds like people are the problem. Religion can't prevent people from doing anything unless people follow it. Frankly, there's a good deal of self serving hypocrisy out there too. To me, self serving does not necessarily have to include a personal agenda, it could be a matter of using religious and other beliefs to bolster the ego.

  • JW72
    JW72

    Hi Intro, I think ALL religion brainwashes to some degree, mainly through the 'pernt-child' cycle of DOOM.

    What I'm saying is, people say 'I can't do that, it says in the bible not to do that....' etc.

    Then another person says 'Are you sure it says that, you might want to look a little closer....' blah blah blah.

    The issue no longer is 'moral' and rather becomes 'intellectual'. That is assuming that what it said in the bible was RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!

    How can 2 religions (Christianity and Islam) be such enemies when they both teach similar things and want similar things?, it's a catastrophy!

    I belive RELIGION IS TO BLAME

  • patio34
    patio34

    Hi Amazing,

    I am not amenable to any 'commandments' from the Bible. There's as much if not more ruthless murdering in that book than in modern times.

    As stated by JW72, religion can be the cause of war. To then frame retaliation in such a bad light as 'revenge' is irresponsible.

    What do you suggest: that the U.S. waits in fear for another attack? Then, will it still be revenge? Your way leads to extinction.

    Please don't drag the Bible into it with all its aggressive genocide.

    Pat

  • barry
    barry

    I know a muslim here in australia who is educated, his attitude to us infidels is that any voilance in the name of Alla is justified. He has lived here in Australia most of his life. I realize the majority of muslims are peacefull from information i have read about recently and would be horrified about recent events just as most christians would not accept the kind of values the IRA has as christian.

  • Introspection
    Introspection

    I believe a more accurate statement would be that beliefs held religiously is a cause of such senseless violence. A religious institution can encourage it's members to blindly follow or educate and empower them, it depends on the emphasis. Of course, if gaining members is the main motive then the more infantile and manipulable they are the better. However, to say religion is the cause, as if any and all religion as belief systems, many with teachings to the contrary it is the sole cause of such acts just makes no sense.

  • COMF
  • jelly
    jelly

    Comf,
    You never answered my questions in ‘Americas vengeance has begun’. Eagerly awaiting you reply.

    Jelly

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