Question for a JW

by Naeblis 24 Replies latest jw friends

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  Naeblis

  Good points. Though in Moses case it wasn't necessarily a prophecy. Also, in Jonah's case that's not really the same thing is it? God told him directly it would happen and then TOLD him he was changing his mind. It's not as if he prophecied something and then simply didn't happen for no reason besides the fact that he was worng about it.

  Now the Tyre example is a different story and I've often wondered about it. Do you know of anywhere where the witnesses have dealt with this seeming error? (and I'll look for the book)

  Also, and thisis not solely directed to you as I understand that you don't necessarily believe the prophets and such to be true, but what does this say of the prophets in general?

  Why is this prophecy wrong? Did the prophet just screw up? It seems like an anomaly of sorts because I believe that the bible was not written at the times people believe but later on in history. My point being that it was tailored to have a certain message, failed prophecies and less influential books left out of the process. Why does this remain?

  BTW, though Cygnus is doing a good job, other people can jump in :P
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  buffalosrfree

  Naeblis, I believe the only inspiration the GB receives is one when they have been constipated for days (from eating MREs they are in a holy war with spirits you know) and they suddenly as a group have an urge to go, all at the same time, now if that ain't inspiring, what is???
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  Cygnus

  Naeblis, you are so inquisitive this weekend! I might have to actually dust off one of my Bibles for this.

  : Though in Moses case it wasn't necessarily a prophecy.

  Well, God certainly did use Moses as a prophet. He was supposed to lead the Hebrews into to promised land. He didn't, even though he certainly was physically able to do so.

  : Also, in Jonah's case that's not really the same thing is it? God told him directly it would happen and then TOLD him he was changing his mind. It's not as if he prophecied something and then simply didn't happen for no reason besides the fact that he was worng about it.

  Okay. I guess sometimes I read the Bible without any reverence for God or his divine ability to screw with humans whenever he feels like it. When I read about a Bible prophet or a story that involves God and his actions, I break it down to what might have really been going on. So in Jonah's case, when he preached the destruction and it didn't happen, he was wrong, regardless of what voices he heard in his head. I guess my way of looking at such things might not be too helpful for the Bible believer to grasp and accept.

  : Now the Tyre example is a different story and I've often wondered about it. Do you know of anywhere where the witnesses have dealt with this seeming error? (and I'll look for the book)

  Yeah, get the book. try www.elihubooks.com if it's still operating. Took them a couple of weeks to get me mine, though. That was a couple of years ago.

  In medieval times Tyre was destroyed and today it is a small, poor town, but for centuries after Alexander the Great's siege it prospered to an extent. The Society says that Ezekiel 26:14 does not say that the land would be completely uninhabited. It says that Tyre would never regain its former prosperity.

  : Also, and thisis not solely directed to you as I understand that you don't necessarily believe the prophets and such to be true, but what does this say of the prophets in general?

  Like I've said, most of what prophets say is hyperbole, whether intended or not. This is of course not limited to biblical prophets.

  : Why is this prophecy wrong? Did the prophet just screw up?
  : My point being that it was tailored to have a certain message, failed prophecies and less influential books left out of the process. Why does this remain?

  Good question. Just like, why do so many NT canonical books contain so many discrepancies with each other? Why does the whole of the NT say that Jesus is coming back imminently? Especially why if some of the pastorals were written perhaps 100+ years after Jesus' death?

  I dunno. A good line from _American Beauty_ is: "Never underestimate the power of denial." I think that is very true when it comes to religious people's attitudes towards goofy things said in the Bible (or other holy books) that never came true and/or are beyond reasonability.
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  Faraon

  Fred Hall,

  What holy spirit? Is this the one that is another form of Yahweh or the form of energy that does not think? Anyway, my point is that whether person or energy, I’d like to know how come the bible is so full of mistakes. Is it then the holy spirit who made the mistakes? I would like to know why it is so full of contradictions and which parts of it can be trusted.

  PS, sorry for not answering sooner. The little bell in my Yahoo messenger seems not to be working.

  Cygnus,
  I found the following information at http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_wheless/is_it_gods_word/ Chapter XI. You will find that none of the major “prophecies” came true, especially those that supposedly applied to Jesus. The thing that distinguished most prophets was that they howled. Also some of them went around naked in public. So when it is said that someone acted like a prophet, it usually means acted like a nut.

  The word "prophet," as a name for these nomadic conjurers and fortune-tellers, is a late Biblical term; they were originally called — just as the fortune-tellers and trance- mediums of to-day describe themselves in their advertisements — "seers"; people who "see things" in their imaginations, or pretend for pay to see them. Samuel, who well describes the grafting practices of this gentry, testifies to this: "Before- time in Israel, when a man went to enquire of the gods [ha- Elohim], thus he spoke, Come, and let us go to the seer [roeh]: for he that is now called a Prophet [Nabi] was beforetime called a Seer [Roeh)" (1 Sam. 9: 9). We may note here another sidelight on Bible editorship: as the word "Roeh" ("Seer") is used throughout the Books of Samuel and elsewhere, it is evident that these books were compiled long afterwards, when "Nabi" ("raver," hence "prophet") was the word in current use, so that the original and then obsolete word, "Roeh," had to be explained.

  YAHVEH'S HOWLING DERVISHES

  The so-called prophets, major and minor, are one and all typical examples of the howling dervish of the desert. Hear them howl! What a string of howls from the great howl-master Isaiah: "Howl ye, for the day of Yahveh is at hand" (Isa. 13: 6)! "Howl, O gate; cry, O city" (14: 31)! "Every one shall howl" (16: 7)! "Howl, ye inhabitants of the isle" (23: 6)! "Ye shall howl for vexation of spirit" (65: 14)!' Jeremiah swells the refrain: "Lament and howl: for the fierce anger of Yahveh" (Jer. 4: S)! "All the inhabitants of the land shall howl" (xl7: 2)! Ezekiel, he who saw things inexplicable, joins in: "Cry and howl, son of man" (Ezek. 21: 12)! "Howl ye, Woe worth the day!" (30: 2). And the "minor league" joins the chorus: "Howl, ye inhabitants!" cries Zephaniah (Zeph. 1: 11); "Howl, O ye oaks of Bashan!" bellows Zechariah (Zech. 11: 2); "The songs of the temple shall be howlings!" howls Amos (Amos 8: 3). Joel not only howls himself, but wants everybody else to howl: "Awake, ye drunkards, weep and howl! Lament, ye priests! Howl, ye ministers of the altar! Alas, for the day of Yahveh is at hand! How do the beasts groan! Yahveh also shall roar out of Zion!" (Joel, passim). Poor Job — but then he was not a prophet but a pagan, and it is not known how he got into the Bible. Job is the only one who does not howl; be wails: "My bowels boiled; ... the days of affliction prevented me" (Job 30: 27)! Micah exults in his frenzy, crying: "I will wail and howl; I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls" (Mic. 1: 8)

  THE HOLY FAKIR PROPHETS

  The prophets, as described by Inspiration, were a precious set of lazy and worthless vagabonds of Israel, the exact counterpart of the howling dervishes and divination-mongers of their cousin Ishmaelites. In speaking of prophets one thinks naturally of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and such reputed "holy men of God": these are but a few signal ones out of thousands of unkempt and unclean loafers, who went publicly naked — as did Aaron, Saul, Samuel, David, Isaiah — or wore old bran-sacks for clothes — like John the Baptist and others — and wandered about begging, and selling sorceries and magic, and talking in a wild sing-song jargon of which they themselves did not know the meaning. The usual term to describe them was in the Hebrew language meshuggah (frenzied); they wandered about "prophesying," or, as the Hebrew word actually signifies (see the Revised Version) razing through the land. Their current Hebrew name was Nabi, which "signified to speak enthusiastically, 'to utter cries, and make more or less wild gestures,' like the pagan mantics" (Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. XII, p. 477, art. Prophecy, Prophet, and Prophetess). They were "seers," fortune-tellers, and diviners, through pretended dreams and trances, and by the use of sacred dice and arrows, and phallic images of Yahveh.

  
  I know it is not kosher to cut and paste, but I want to provide you with better information that I am capable of doing on my own.
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  cornish

  The GB like to have all the authority of an inspired prophet with none of the responsibility,ie all prophecies must come true 100 per cent.