Were the "Annointed" that got disfellowshipped still "Annointed"??????

by mama1119 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    According to the book "United in Worship of the only True God", replacements are rarely necessary.

    As authority the book quotes a Watchtower article. If the wicked one returns and is repentant, he will get back his "CROWN"

    After that study I caused a stir, because I asked "what if that one returned 10 seconds before the door is closed?"

    Of course i was villified and everything i said lead to more cavilling.

    Yet Hebrews 10 says they will not get back their crown. They just become a mamber of the Great Crowd.

    HB

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    What makes you think any jw is or ever has been "anointed"?

  • mama1119
    mama1119

    Very intersesting, but why are they still partaking if they are eternally dead. And how do they keep track and call in the replacements. It all sounds so bizarre..

  • Quandry
    Quandry

    Dear "Mama"

    I have wondered this-how were two people in your hall annointed when you were a teenager and you don't seem to be that old? Were they really old, old people? If so, they were having an affair?( eeuuuuwww-the picture that this conjures) If they were not old, how were they annointed? I know that I read many years ago that by 1935 all the annointed were chosen so after that there would be only a very few replacements needed. Then, later, I read that if any replacements were necessary, it was logical that only those who had been faithful many years (hence, old) would be chosen to replace the ones that fell away.

    When I was fairly new to the Org., there was a young woman in the Hall I attended. She was newly married. I mean in her twenties-and professed to be of the annointed. This was over twenty years ago. I remember wondering about it. Of course, I never asked anyone as this would be questioning, and I didn't dare to do that.

    In addition, I have gone back to your first posts to get to know more about you. I read that after you were df'd, you met with the elders at least about twelve times and they just kept bringing up what you did to try to make you feel as bad about yourself as they possibly could but still no reinstatement.

    I want you to know that I felt so bad at reading your story. Of all the things, new generation, UN scandal, etc. I could take it all and perhaps remain in the org., but it's the stories like these that did me in. How could these people be the imitation of a loving head of the congregation, Jesus? He never treated people like this.

    In our lives we are confronted with so much adversity and sadness. For people to say they are loving shepherds and then beat the flock in such a way-they are filled with self-righteousness. They are without pity or kindness. They were so happy with themselves after treating you in such a humiliating way. It is my fervent hope that they are judged with the same mercy they showed to you.

    It seems that your parents do not shun you. I am happy for that.

    I hope after some time has passed that you are able to see the value that you have as a person. May all of us who were treated so badly by those who were meant to upbuild and comfort know that we still can make a difference in the lives of others and treat others in a kinder way, thereby making their day a little brighter.

    Glad to know you.

  • blondie
    blondie

    So if anointed JWs who are DF'd are dead and there is no hope for them, how could the Corinthian brother who was DF'd (per the WTS) be reinstated with full status as anointed?

    ***

    w76 3/1 pp. 158-159 Questions From Readers ***

    ?

    Can an anointed Christian who is disfellowshiped later be reinstated and still have the heavenly hope?

    Yes, that is possible. Of course, in each case Jehovah God is the one to determine whether he will extend forgiveness.

    The fact that this is possible is borne out by what we read in the apostle Paul’s letters to the Corinthian congregation. He wrote to Christians who had been anointed by holy spirit and given the hope of heavenly life. Paul addressed them as "you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones."—1 Cor. 1:2; 15:49.

    One of these anointed Christians began to practice fornication. When he evidently did not repent and stop his immorality, Paul directed the congregation to disfellowship him. (1 Cor. 5:1-5, 9-13) However, it seems that this disfellowshiped person thereafter did sincerely repent. He is understood to be the person whom Paul was referring to in his second letter when he advised the Corinthians to forgive and accept back the former sinner.—2 Cor. 2:6-11; 7:8-13.

    When that man was reinstated into the congregation, what was his hope? Had he lost the heavenly calling, and had his hope now been changed to everlasting life on earth? No, for the earthly hope is not, as it were, a second-chance prospect. Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and multitudes of other persons of outstanding faith had the hope of eternal life on earth, but this was not because they failed to measure up to the heavenly calling. They simply did not live in the time when the heavenly calling was in process according to Jehovah’s will. (Heb. 10:19, 20) Comparable faith and integrity are required of all who will gain everlasting life, whether in heaven or on a paradise earth. A Christian who is anointed with holy spirit and made a joint heir with Christ must prove faithful to that calling if he is to receive eternal life at all.—Rev. 2:10, 11; Phil. 3:8-14; Rom. 8:14-17.

    This, though, does not mean that while they are on earth anointed Christians never sin. In the flesh, they are still imperfect and consequently they sin, as do all humans, and may even commit gross sin. The Christian disciple and Bible writer James, certainly an anointed Christian, wrote: "For we all stumble many times. If anyone does not stumble in word, this one is a perfect man." (Jas. 3:2; 2:5) It appears that such unintentional sin resulting from imperfection is what the apostle John meant by "sin that does not incur death." (1 John 5:16) God can forgive such sins. John said: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."—1 John 1:9.

    But repentance is necessary. If an anointed Christian today practiced gross sin and did not manifest repentance, the congregation, out of obedience to God’s counsel, would have to disfellowship him. If he subsequently repented, though, he could be forgiven and reinstated, as was the man in Corinth.

    God does not, however, forgive all sin. According to what Jesus said in Mark 3:28, 29, those who willfully and knowingly blaspheme God’s spirit can never be forgiven. And Paul wrote: "If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment." (Heb. 10:26, 27) Such unforgivable sin is evidently what John referred to as "sin that does incur death."—1 John 5:16.

    If an anointed Christian sinned against the spirit, practicing willful sin without repentance and ‘impaling the Son of God afresh,’ God would completely and forever reject him. (Heb. 6:4-6) Not being repentant, he would not be reinstated. Jehovah would have to select and anoint another Christian as a replacement so that the full number of 144,000 would be kept complete. It might be compared to heaven’s choice of Matthias to replace unfaithful Judas Iscariot so that there would be twelve faithful apostles of Jesus on which to build the Christian congregation.—Acts 1:23-26; Eph. 2:20.

    Is this to say that if an anointed Christian is disfellowshiped, Jehovah then and there selects a replacement? No human can say that, for we cannot know if the disfellowshiped individual has committed the unforgivable sin. Jehovah knows, and so the matter can be left in his hands. Just how and when he chooses to select a replacement is for him to decide. He did not give a detailed discussion of the matter in the Bible. So rather than speculate on what He will do or try to guess whether a disfellowshiped person is beyond the possibility of repentance, we can leave the matter up to Jehovah, the righteous Judge.—Heb. 12:23.

    If a congregation has had to disfellowship a person but he later repents and is reinstated, we can rejoice over Jehovah’s mercy and forgiveness. (Luke 15:7) That is so whether the person professed the heavenly hope and continues to do so or had and continues to have hope of everlasting life on earth. All of us should take to heart the lessons learned from this—our own need to fight constantly against imperfection and sin, the importance of seeking forgiveness when we do sin and the necessity of enduring to the end so as to be saved.—Matt. 10:22.

  • restrangled
    restrangled

    My uncle who was one of the annointed was disfellowshiped for practicing homosexuality. (During the early 70's) Approximately 15 years later he was reinstated. He is now in his mid 80's. Still very involved with Bethelites, and has many connections.

    I have posted this before: when asked by the family about his standing he is very vague. The picture we all get is he is no longer one of the anointed. There is never a straight answer.

    The entire subject is shrouded in secrecy. He is a famous pianist for a very exclusive club in a major city that he has played in for many years.

    I know this does not answer your question, or our own family's. The WBTS has made this one of those mysteries not available to the R and F.

    It all stinks as far as I am concerned.

    r.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Based on the QFR above, if he is no longer one of the anointed, it would be by his choice, not the WTS. Actually, as long as an anointed JW has neither DA'd or been DF'd, the WTS cannot officially unanoint them. So if he has been reinstated, has not been DF'd again or DA'd himself, I would think he is still considered annointed.

    Does he still partake at the Memorial (assuming he goes)? That should clinch the mystery?

    Blondie

  • Synergy
    Synergy

    My great grandfather was "annointed" and he left his wife (and six kids) for a "sister" in the hall. They got married and a few years later he left her and came back to my great grandmother. Once reinstated he was the same old anointed fart he always was.

    There must me NO UNITY in that "only one true unified brotherhood on earth."

    Renee ( Of the no longer buying your crap class)

  • mama1119
    mama1119

    Quandry,

    I was probably 17 or 18 when it happened, I am 27 now. The woman was in her late thirties and the man was in his late forties. The affair was over a time period of about two years, they were probably df for about three years after, they partook the whole time.

    No, my parents do not shun me. Thank goodness for that, I don't know what I would do with out them. They are soem of the rare witnesses that view family as something that cannot be broken. They have both done their research over the last two years and thankfully have come to the same conclusion as me, that it is not the truth.

    While I was resentful for quite some time about what the elders did to me, I think now, it happened for a reason, so that my family and I could be free. I firmly believe if I hadn't got df, we would still be under there control, I am so thankful I never got reinstated.

    I feel the same way as you Quandry, the doctrines are bothersome, but it is the mind control and playing with peoples lives that I cannot live with.

    Thank you for your reply!

  • Arthur
    Arthur

    I guess it's like a ball player who goes on the disabled list.

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