by headmath 15 Replies latest watchtower scandals
This also brings up the question of whether the society will have to stop reporting the numbers in the future - that 8000 odd count is starting to kind of smell, isn't it?
Yes it is! This very point was the one that made me perk up and begin to smell the coffee. I cut my apostate teeth on this issue and trying to make any sense out of how 90+ year olds quit dying in the mid 1980's within the ranks of the annointed.
It is now two decades that the number has not fallen but a few dozen.
Jeff
Well if they teach that with respect to either the 144,000 or the great crowd, the teaching would have a biblical basis...you may have seen my thread on this subject?
The quaint "princes of the earth" belief was a holdover from the optimistic Millions Now Living days, which interpreted Psalm 45:16 (via Romans 9:4-5, Matthew 8:11, and Hebrews 11, and through the idea that those who died before Jesus would not have a heavenly destiny) as indicating that the peoples of the earth will be ruled by the "fathers" and will come to Jerusalem for instruction and worship (cf. Zechariah for similar thoughts). So they taught that Jerusalem would become the world capital and the princes will rule over the Millions Now Living; of course, this went hand-in-hand with the Zionism of the 1920s. But Rutherford rejected Zionism in the 1930s and and repudiated the view that millions of non-JWs would survive Armageddon. I guess the princes teaching was not retired until Rutherford's death because it continued to serve as the rationale for Rutherford's mansion in California.
And, how does that nonsense of Daniel and the other Judges of old getting brought back to earth in the 20s and 30s fit in?
Although I have no documentation to prove this - my opinion is that was the start of laying the foundation for the two classes doctrine. It made the heavenly class a limited number chosen since Christ and it would allow 144000 to fit this foundation - otherwise what could he do with the millions of 'faithful' jews from before the time of Christ?
Just my opinion - I think he had the master plan for this doctrine well in mind before he launched it full scale in the 30's seeing the numbers get out of control. What else did the guy have to do sitting and drinking in Beth Sarim all day? He had to do something - tv wasnt' here yet.
Jeff
Although I have no documentation to prove this - my opinion is that was the start of laying the foundation for the two classes doctrine. It made the heavenly class a limited number chosen since Christ and it would allow 144000 to fit this foundation - otherwise what could he do with the millions of 'faithful' jews from before the time of Christ?Just my opinion - I think he had the master plan for this doctrine well in mind before he launched it full scale in the 30's seeing the numbers get out of control.
I'm not sure about that, Jeff. According to the 1917 'Finished Mystery' book p.575 (The Classes), the Jews from before the time of Christ would spend the 1000 years progressing toward perfection on earth. Besides, according to the 1932 'Vindication 3' on p. 204 (talking about Ezek. 40 and the outer court of the temple):
"It was seven steps above the outside, but was lower than the pavement of the inner court ( I-H ), which is utilized by the royal priesthood. This picture shows the position of the "great multitude". Ever and anon someone advances the conclusion that the "great multitude" will not be a spiritual class. The prophecy of Ezekiel shows that such conclusion is erroneous. The fact that their position is seven steps higher than the outside shows that they must be made spirit creatures."
So I don't think Rutherford had a concrete 'master plan' in mind (maybe a work-in-progress?) before he went and double-backed on the above statement two or three years later.
The really incredible thing about "great crowd" is simply that witnesses have picked and chosen this stupid two-class 144000 doctrine out of all the raving lunatic Rutherford crap from the early thirties. And held on to just that one little piece of it.
If Rutherford was right about the 144000, and it was so sacrosanct as to be preserved to this day, then how in the hell did he get it wrong about Beth-Sarim, the princes of the earth, 1925, Hitler, the Catholic Church, and all the rest of the stuff that they put out into the morning trash?
Disgusting.
I think Rutherford said it best when he said "Religion is a snare and a racket". I think the bottom line is as I've already stated , the GC survive into the new system they don't die and then get resurrected during the millenial reign . Revelation is clear the 144k die as martyrs and are resurrected in the first resurrection . All you gotta do is read it and believe it and stop trying to make it fit some hair brained scheme of a book publishing corporation . Man this religion goes to great length to appear like they have some sort of inside info that they don't have .
