Couple of JW Sisters came to my door - mini rumble

by Qcmbr 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • jaada

    ok i have to add my 2 cents in about mormons, yes they did want to convert all Native Americans, i know i am native american and my ex was mormon. my new husband has his brothers and sisters taken from his family by mormons they did this often on the indian reservations, to teach them the mormon ways, they take them for summers into their homes and teach them. no one knew how bad this was until they all came to the reservations teaching us that our ways are pagan and we are lower forms of humans. they tried to convert us all the time. not just mormons thats true catholics as well . The Native ways have been around much longer than the mormons catholics or jehovahs witnesses, we have always believed in a creator. and this was out of the mouth of my ex husbands grandfather that the black man is the mark that cain bore after killing his brother.

    I started listening to the jehovahs witness's a few years ago everything they said was so nice and they were not racist. but when i got to see them for what they really were like i was left bitter, and i should have known better than to get involved with organized religion. but i do now :)

  • esw1966

    My quick uneducated thought about Mormons and any other group is this:

    You only need Jesus for salvation. That's all He states. jw's and (I believe) mormons feel that you need more than Jesus for salvation.

    Once you begin to add membership or other ideologies to the salvation equation you begin to be a follower of MAN; thus enslaved and a victim of wolves amongst the sheep.

  • jeanniebeanz

    Shawn10538, 'Dude', you're going to have an embolism if you don't calm down. lol


  • praiseband

    Qcmbr, I have a question. Do you believe that you will continue to progress/evolve to a more enlightened or exalted state to become like God? Is there a point at which this type of growth stops because you have advanced as far as possible? Or even once you are exalted do you continue to progress? If yes, how do you know that the God of earth is fully mature and not basically an "adolescent" God. If he is still progressing, then what you have believed to be absolutes at one point in time may prove to be totally or partially wrong in the future. If he has more to learn, then he couldn't have possibly shared everything with the humans he has created. Just something I've been thinking about.

  • Qcmbr

    Rachel - sos - didn't catch your post - just a quick answer no I don't think you need a building to be at one with God or to worship - just its a bit easier to have one. God uses nature more often than He uses buildings as far as I can read... Mt Sinai was far more up close and personal than the temple in Jerusalem ever got.

    Praise - I gotta understand what you mean by progress - I think everyone alive wants to progress and know more, experience new things and for me personally (assuming I get a long life) I am also looking forward to my children's lives and grandchildren's lives being shared in part with me. I may get to a point when I know as much as I need to for this life's purposes (i.e by that measure I'm not progressing) but I know I will never have enough of spending time with friends and family - I think that God is like that - He knows everything He needs for His life but he'll never tire of sharing the lives of his children forever. Makes sense to me that if I want that why can't I too experience a never ending family life.

    You know that's the one thing I love to ask religious people is what they dream and hope the next part of life is all about. It would be pretty sucky to me if all we got for this effort was a nice garden and talking snakes.

  • Qcmbr

    esw - I did ask the JWs sisters some questions around this topic but I didn't pursue it with any vigour - I'm interested in what things - to the outside viewer - it seems JWs and Mormons put in addition / beside / above Jesus?

    With the sisters (do JWs call them sisters?) above I was planning a full on discussion about Jesus v Jehovah and 1 Peter 4:14 but I kinda tailed off but in all honesty this is probably the JW achilles heal from my limited understanding on this site - at the real core is the replacement of Jesus with Jehovah - just as surely as Mary / Saints / Prophets / rules and regs can sometimes seem to receive more effort in other reliogions.

  • praiseband

    Qcmbr- I appreciate your reply, but I guess I didn't clarify my question very well. I was intending to ask (1) do you believe that you as a human will one day (you use the word that is most accurate for you) become a God? (2)And as a God, will you then "plateau" in your spiritual maturity or will you continue throughout eternity to become even more spiritually mature? (3)Are there God's who are more spiritually mature than others. You do believe there is, and will be, more than one God, correct? Even though you may only actually worship the one you recognize as the God of earth. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

  • Qcmbr

    'They' are coming back!!! I have an appointment this weekend with an Elder - on his own! Cool. My wife said he called round today and looked properly prepared ( I was at work.) I'm looking forward to a good exchange of ideas.

    Praise -

    Figuring that God is a title to me and indicates a certain level of responsibility, knowledge and glory I would like to think that everyone can reach this level should they so wish. Supposing at some stage of my eternal life I do reach this point then my God would still be the same one I have now (i.e. paternal lines don't change.) Will I progress thereafter - not in knowledge (snce that's a pre-req for being God) but what that means in another thing (do you have more knowledge if you have access to the internet for example - is perfect knowledge the ability to get access to it all or the more difficult concept to envisage - being able to simultaneously conceive all things?)

  • praiseband

    Q - thanks once again for your reply. The first half in particular really helped me to get a grasp on your perspective. Do you mind if I ask another question? Are men and women equally able to attain the titles of god, independent of each other? Can a man or woman become god without the other? By the way, I really enjoyed the title to your thread - "mini rumble" that's good! Good luck with your next dialogue and I will be thinking about all of you and eager to hear the outcome. Maybe you could call it a "tiny throwdown". Also, I should mention that I am a Biblical Christian. My daughter-in-law is a Witness, so I have come to this website to learn what I can and have been very impressed with the insight that I have gained. Sometimes, it is much easier to learn from a group of diverse strangers than to approach a new relative. I love her very much and hope to have some good, open discussions in the future. We have only had mini discussions up to this point. Take care!

  • Qcmbr

    Thanks Praise - your question RE men and women shows razor insight into what we believe is a critical requirment to be like God the Father, marriage - hence the statements regarding 'one flesh'.. it is impossible to be a God like the Father without marriage and just as Adam is a dualistic and collective term so can God be used within lds vernacular. Thus man was made in the image of 'God' - male and female.

    apols. anyone else - this thread drifted!

    (New Testament | Luke 20:34 - 36)
    34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
    35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
    36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
    - just a note that 'children of the world' means not children of God -

    (New Testament | Luke 16:8)
    8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

    (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 131:1 - 4)
    1 IN the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;
    2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];
    3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.
    4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

    (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 132:13 - 16)
    13 And everything that is in the world, whether it be ordained of men, by thrones, or principalities, or powers, or things of name, whatsoever they may be, that are not by me or by my word, saith the Lord, shall be thrown down, and shall not remain after men are dead, neither in nor after the resurrection, saith the Lord your God.
    14 For whatsoever things remain are by me; and whatsoever things are not by me shall be shaken and destroyed.
    15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.
    16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

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