Are we pro-shunning or against it?

by Simon 55 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Fisherman

  genuine pain and hurt

  so does jail, court orders governing visitation and custody that people do not like, other government actions that separate families,vindictive spouses and relatives, and good or bad personal decisions and choices made by individuals that result in pain for themselves or for others.
  

  "it is nothing like the same and it trivialize"

  In the USA, people are free to believe whatever they like. But in the comparisons, the principle of shunning

  ( not its effects) is the same and the principle of vindictiveness is the same and so is the principle of not dictating to others how to run their group, the same.
  

  I believe that I have made my point on this subject.
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  leaving_quietly

  By comparison, the biblical instance where Paul supposedly recommended a congregation shun an individual he went on to tell everyone the precise reason for his recommendation.

  As others stated, forced shunning is the issue. But, for the record, Paul NEVER said to shun. He said to "stop keeping company" or "stop associating". There's a BIG difference in shunning and avoiding.

  Something to keep in mind with regards to whether religious shunning should EVER be acceptable. Did Christ shun Satan? Did God? Or did BOTH actually have conversations with him? Shouldn't that be the measuring stick?
  
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  Marvin Shilmer

  "As others stated, forced shunning is the issue. But, for the record, Paul NEVER said to shun. He said to "stop keeping company" or "stop associating". There's a BIG difference in shunning and avoiding."

  You presume.

  I have not cited the biblical incident as though it presents a model for shunning as Watchtower would have JWs shun.

  Otherwise the distinction you attempt of shunning versus avoiding is amusing. Avoiding is an instance of shunning.
• 

  OUTLAW

  Even the owner of this website who seems to be the author of this thread sometimes must decide to enforce his rules, finding it necessary to toss a member out and not allowing him to express himself anymore to others on this Forum. And for anyone expressing any criticism on this Forum for such a decision can also find himself not being able to communicate with others on this Forum.....Fisherman

  If someone is banned from this forum,I`m still able to communicate with them.....That is a Fact..
  

  If I disagree with a Ban..

  I am Free to bring up My Concerns in a Pm to JWN Administration, "Without Fear of Retaliation" ..

  That is also a Fact..

  .
  

  Comparing what happens on this Forum,to "Shunning in the WBT$ JW Cult"..

  Is WatchTarded..
  

  ............................
  

  ....
• 

  leaving_quietly

  Otherwise the distinction you attempt of shunning versus avoiding is amusing. Avoiding is an instance of shunning.

  You are right. I was thinking of the WT definition of shunning which goes beyond your typical avoidance, to include not even speaking with someone.
  
• 

  Esse quam videri

  Isn't the real issue not that we don't agree or disagree with shunning per-se, but that we disagree with who should and shouldn't be shunned and why.

  Of course, this is the core of the issue. Many people should be shunned and for many reasons. Society shuns people in many ways. Probably the most extreme is incarceration in solitary confinement.
  
• 

  OUTLAW

  Society shuns people in many ways.

  Probably the most extreme is incarceration in solitary confinement.Esse quam videri
  

  Extremely Poor Example..

  Its STILL Confinement not Shunning.....

  Plus..

  When has the WBT$ ever Clothed,Housed and Fed their Condemned?!!..

  They don`t even do it for their "OWN NEEDY" in Good Standing with the WBT$..

  The Outside World treats Criminals better,than the WBT$ does their Own People..

  .
  

  
• 

  OrphanCrow

  Plus..
  

  When has the WBT$ ever Clothed,Housed and Fed their Condemned?!!..

  They don`t even do it for their "OWN NEEDY" in Good Standing with the WBT$..

  The Outside World treats Criminals better,than the WBT$ does their Own People..

  Plus...

  A convicted criminal, once they have served their sentence, gets out of jail.The only ones who stay in jail are those with life sentences.

  The WTS gives everyone they disfellowship a life sentence. Unless, of course, you bend over when the big guys tell you to.

  Hey - it is like jail...except it is upside down. Being shunned keeps you out of the WTS jail and being re-instated is like going to jail.

  Bend over, all you lovelys!
  
• 

  Simon

  Whether the shunning they practice is genuinely inspired by the bible or they do it in the same way is irrelevant. The fact is they shun in their way and they have the freedom to do so because the only consequence of not following the beliefs and rules of the group is not to belong to the group.

  We get so easily sidetracked into trying to prove it right or wrong as a bible concept. No one can ever "prove" that because it comes down to interpretation and you are dealing with people who have convinced the group that they are the ones that should be interpreting the bible on their behalf.

  The focus should be that it is unloving and hurtful when it is used as a weapon of control. Not that it is inherently "wrong" in and of itself and not that it is non-biblical in any way.

  The WTS uses shunning as a form of self-protection to silence whistleblowers and anyone who tries to warn or educate their friends and family about things they discover about the WTS. I think this is the are to focus on as non-religious / non-JW people don't get distracted or confused by the nuances - they can equate it to "wrong" in other walks of life.
• 

  MissFit

  Simon, I appreciate this discussion.

  I think it is very important for all of us ( active, nonactive, ex, JWS) to get away from black and white thinking.

  I hope your OP will help people think past their knee jerk reaction to everything JW. The issue isn't all or nothing most times.

  I like how this discussion evolved into looking into the distinctions involved.

  It is healthy to stop and reflect.

  When I was in 3rd grade I moved into a very small town and went to a tiny school where all the kids knew each other from birth.

  The popular girl A took a dislike to me.

  That year she conducted a class wide campaign against me. It started simply.

  Every time someone was partnered with me she or her posse would come up to them and say "poor you, I feel sorry for you." If someone actually volunteered to work with me, they would be met with distain and told they had Missfit germs.

  By the end of the school year everyone knew that to talk to me or interact with me voluntarily would result in sharing my fate.

  Yes, Miss Popular disfellowshiped me from 3rd grade thru 8th grade until I moved.

  Those girls didn't think they had a choice either. It was shunned or be shunned.

  It's peer pressure, plain and simple. It just depends on who has the power.

  On the other hand. Miss Popular's sister tried to do the same to my little sister L.

  Little L orchestrated a coup and got some backers from mistreated friends and convinced them to give MissPopularJr. a taste of her own medicine. After a day of shunning, MissPopularJr never messed with sis again and was a kind and gentler dictator. All was well in the second grade.

  Little L refused to give the power to Miss.Popular Jr. and fought back.