Do you think that JW's are integrating more into society these days?

by JH 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • M.J.
    Its not so much Watchtower changing, but that their own members are changing.

    I think that's exactly the point. JWs are integrating more, even if it is to the consternation of the WTS. This is why the WTS has started screaming louder. How common was it for a JW in the early seventies to put money away in a retirement account? To save up for their children's college? ect.?

  • truthseeker

    Metatron, my wallet has been closed to the WTS for a very long time.

    Yes, many witnesses are becoming mainstream.

    A couple I know enjoy lazertag and watch R rated videos. Then they study for their meetings and go out in service.

    Some people NEVER have any return visits, they go out, do their hour and go home.

    Others are going to uni despite WT proclamations that "wise young ones do not allow higher education to mold their thinking."

    So yes, change will come within the rank and file, not the Theocrats in charge.

  • slimboyfat

    One sister in our congregation thought she got away with attending a Bonfire Night celebration - until she appeared on a picture on the front page of the paper the next day with sparklers in her hand!

  • M.J.

    OK, SBF, what is bonfire night? Sounds eeevil.

    Our "bonfire night" is usually a rally the night before a college homecoming football game.

  • Axelspeed
    Its not so much Watchtower changing, but that their own members are changing.

    I agree that this is the point. Any kind of reform, or whatever you want to call it, from the top will never come. If it is coming, its way to slow in coming for the R&F. Also, there is no one with the juice at the top to initiate that kind of change. They have created a system whereby they have landlocked themselves, and anyone who dares talk of change will find himself being shipped out with the latest batch of ex-bethelites..

    On the other hand, many of the rank and file, while nodding there heads in agreement, are by there actions showing that they are much more willing to pick and choose what they are willing to swallow. They are going to college, they are not giving up the internet, some being deprived as kids themselves are enrolling there kids in ...hold your breath...the YMCA, brothers are not reaching out (and not feeling guilty about it), brothers are resigning and planting themselves in their seats (and not feeling bad about it), etc. etc. etc. The JW of today is still compliant, but still a totally different breed than what was common 20 or 30 yrs ago.

    The JWs are changing, but in an unexpected way...from the bottom up.

    (They will never change enough for me. The more I think about what they took the more I despise them.)


  • undercover
    From where I sit, the Organization is desperately pulling out all stops to limit the R&F's contact with "the world". As we well know, there's been a vigorous campaign recently to make sure that everything outside of the Organization is seen as being "part of Satan's world". Everything from higher education to association with non-practicing Dub family members is seen as being "baaaaaaaad". I mean, for crissakes, they're even telling the brothers where and how to obtain their lunches at the ASSemblies!! I don't see that as "progress" at all. The senile old men at the top are trying desperately to hang on to their thrones and are barking out the orders "off with their heads" to anyone who would like to make some positive changes.

    Yea, but I don't think it's working. There may be some hard-core dubs left who tow the company line, but they're becoming fewer. The old school is dying off and fewer and fewer of the younger generations are isolating themselves from the "world" as their older peers did.

    I've seen more and more JWs that I know out in the bars, clubs and concerts than I did just a few years ago. They make no qualms about the movies they go see, rent or even own. Risque things that used to be a complete no-no, are flirted with, if not outright embraced. Over half of the young ones are heading off to college after graduating high school. They're starting to enjoy what the "world" has to offer. They're starting to take advantage of education and job oppurtunities. Armageddon is not real to them anymore. A JW friend of mine, just the other day, was talking about time flying and pretty soon his daughter will be graduating school and he himself will be in his 50s. He mused about retirement and how it would be on him quicker than he realized. But then as an after thought, he said, "if the New System doesn't come by then", but he said it with very little conviction. It was the WTthink coming out, it wasn't what he really believed. Not anymore anyway. I noticed also that the comment was negative, not positive. When I was a kid, everyone said, "we won't have to retire...we won't have to need Social Security...we won't need a college education...the end is near and we'll be in the New System before you know it" now it's "IF...if the NS doesn't come..." They're doubting, they're not sure anymore.

    Individually it's good to see people thinking for themselves and making their own decisions on what they'll watch, read, listen to or how much education to get.

    However, I have to admit, I prefer the WTS stance of clamping down on the flock and demonizing everything. It makes it easy to point out the unreasonableness of their stances. It can also push fringe members into rebelling.

    If the WTS were to become more mainstream and the dubs integrated into the world, then they just become another off-center religion with members that become more and more normal to the rest of the non-JW world as time goes by. But as long as they're regarded as cult-like and standoffish, it's easier to warn outsiders away from their wacky doctrines and practices.

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