Is the average American afraid of the return of its troops?

Gill

Is the ordinary American, afraid of the return of their service men from Iraq? Without a doubt, these young men have been traumatised by everything they have done, or seen done. How damaged are they now? Can they return to ordinary civillian life with out their being a terrible upsurge in violence? Is the US government doing enough to debrief and help those mentally damaged?

Who will help those mentally and physically traumatised by these men, the Iraquis?

Can the US ever recover its reputation as 'the platinum standard of behaviour for the world'?

A country gets the government it deserves. It has to put up with such a government until it develops the back bone to either remove it, or it evolves anyway.

It now appears, that the rule with a rod of iron was what the Iraqis needed. Sadam, kept the peace, more or less. Despite his evil, wicked debauched side. Now, there is no peace in Iraq. There is no rule of law. If the troops pulled out today, there would be NO rule of law.

America has showed that no one is better than another. The prison scandal showed that the US is as debauched as Sadam was. The massacres prove that the US is as debauched as Sadam was.

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Give a boy a gun, and he'll use it.

Leolaia

Can the US ever recover its reputation as 'the platinum standard of behaviour for the world'?

I doubt the reputation was ever "platinum standard", and who knows how long-term the damage is, but today (as I read Simon's thread) I thought a lot about Chauncey's remark to Number 2: "You've had your chance and you've gobbled its balls". Seems to be the best overall description in my mind of how our country totally f**ed (pardon my French) its international post-9/11 goodwill with its aimless and bloody foray in neo-colonialism.

And since I've already brought up Wonder Showzen, might as well share this gem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abW3MAwAKrg

Shining One

Gill,
Are you really that clueless? You must not have any 'alternative' news sources from the lib, socialist agenda trumping media. Iraq has been freed of a murderous brute who was ready to acquire WMDs as soon as the embargo was lifted. He already had Russia, France and the U.N. brass in cahoots with him. Our troops have freed more than 50 million people in the Islamic world and Iraq has already had three very successful elections and is well on the way to establishing order, the great majority of Iraquis are behind our effort and only ask for enough time to drive the foreigners out of their country.
It may end up as three separate states working out of a central goverment. Afghanistan is working out there rule even better. Democracy is getting good start in the middle east. I wonder why all of the leftist weanies (who are supposed to be on the side of the 'common man') are so constant in their negative propaganda? They want to see the return and expansion of communism is my guess.
Rex

Shining One

Leo,
You are so steeped in leftist propaganda. Neo-colonialism? LOL, if that's the case why do we not CONTROL THE NATIONS THAT WE DEFEAT? You have seen Soviet colonialism and you obviously ignore it. Doesn't the idea of human rights apply to Communists or Islamists? America defeats it's enemies then helps the PEOPLE OF THE COUNTRY form a government that is for the people. We help them rebuild their countries and support their economies. Sure, it's not perfect but I wonder if you realize what the alternatives are? The media whines about our 'torture' of people but I wouldn't call something along the lines of a fraternity prank torture! Do you just igmore the beheadings? Do you just ignore the horrible homicide attacks by the religious of the biggest cult in the world? If it ws up to Europe we would all be dealing with the latest Nazi regime!
Islam is expansionist by it's very nature and teachings. Communist governments typically pan out the same way. Have you read ay of the books on the Soviet Gulags? Have you not seen the total degradation of women in the Islamic countries? Your mouth would soon be silenced in either one. Don't believe me? Go try to live under one.
Rex

zeroday

Shining one:

All the Left has is fear to offer. IF Al Bore had been elected pres. (he was not sorry lefties read the constitution) Saddam would still be murdering his own people. Iran would be allowed to make a nuke and when they dropped it on Israel would say "Well you probably had a good reason".

Simon

It now appears, that the rule with a rod of iron was what the Iraqis needed. Sadam, kept the peace, more or less. Despite his evil, wicked debauched side. Now, there is no peace in Iraq. There is no rule of law. If the troops pulled out today, there would be NO rule of law.

America has showed that no one is better than another. The prison scandal showed that the US is as debauched as Sadam was. The massacres prove that the US is as debauched as Sadam was.

Some interesting points. There was a TV programme over here that detailed the history of Iraq and the idea that "Iraq wasn't a product of Saddam" so much that "Saddam was a product of Iraq" was quite a plausible one.

There is bound to be a big impact to American society when so many troops have been in such situations just as there was with Vietnam.

The scary things is ... how long will they still have to be there and how many will end up with the experience? The occupation could easily be 10+ years as many have suggested.

Gill

There is a small part of me that looks at Sadam when he is on trial, and feels sorry for him.

He did what he felt he had to do to keep an unruly country in order. He did very bad things. The Americans are doing very bad things to even try to keep this country in order.

Iraq....who will help those people? Are they beyond help now with their inter religious hatreds?

I hope there are plans in action to help those returning American troops. Could be they turn around one day and say, 'this country was in better shape when we came than when we left.'

As for Iraq nuking any of its neighbours....why would they nuke their neighbour...they might as well just drop a nuke on themselves?

zeroday

There is a small part of me that looks at Sadam when he is on trial, and feels sorry for him.

Did you feel sorry for him when he stole the billions of dollars from the oil for food program to build his 20 something palaces and left his own people to starve.

He did what he felt he had to do to keep an unruly country in order.

I guess mass murder was necessary to keep order.

Gill

Zeroday - Certainly looks like it's not working now....mass murder.

I'm not saying that anything bad that Sadam did was...well good. If you've read my previous comments on this on this topic you'll see that I described his behaviour as debauched....and I mean that. But I'm saying, that this may well be a country so divided within itself, with all its tribal hostilities, kidnappings, murders, hatred that it is not far off ungovernable. Add the insurgents on top of that and you have a powder keg!

Ordinary men...soldiers have been sent into this nightmare situation along with all those innocent civillians.

They're in Hell....only this is no biblical fantasy but reality.

We sit quietly condemning their behaviour.....as wicked as it is.....their ground rules are different to ours. They are fighting for their very survival. Not ALL of them will kill women, children and innocents....but some of them will crack. It has to be condemned..naturally..But why it is happening in the first place has to be understood......otherwise it cannot be stopped.

zeroday

Certainly looks like it's not working now....mass murder.

And what mass murder would that be. Do you want to compare what might have happened with the Marines and the hundreds of thousands Saddam killed to "Keep Order". If what the Marines did is true they must be brought to justice. Who was in Iraq to bring Saddam to justice.

Is the average American afraid of the return of its troops?

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