Once saved always saved?

by greendawn 26 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • greendawn

    At one extreme are people like the JWs that we criticise for relying too much on works for their salvation and so they have to live through a lot of anxiety day after day out of fear of failing.

    At the other extreme are those that say "I am saved by faith alone, once saved always saved, that's why Jesus died for us" and seem to ignore completely the good works factor.

    Obviously the right balance is somewhere between the two but we need more sophisticated thinking to grasp it than just: I need works to be saved or I need only faith to be saved.

  • FairMind

    I believe that faith and works are two sides of the same coin as they go hand in hand. Claiming that you have faith is a hollow claim if your actions aren’t there to support it. Works of faith involve much more than preaching the good news (although that is part of it). It has always been my feeling that the kind of works the Bible writers had in mind dealt with the morality of our lives in conjunction with the love and compassion we show others.

  • LittleToe

    Seems Paul was big on faith.

    The Text the JWs use is the one in James about "faith without works is dead", but most churches apply that to being works that procede from a living relationship with God, rather than the works actually earning you anything. Works for me

  • Narkissos

    On a strictly logical level, there's a bit more to "once saved always saved" than "faith vs. works". What if it is "only by faith" and you lose faith?

    I'm afraid the ancient notion of eternity is lost beyond repair.

  • Warlock

    I think that if you claim to be a Christian, you should live the life required by such a claim. I know no one can live it perfectly, but your life should be different from those who do not claim to be Christians.


  • Satanus

    None of us gets lost, we recycle until we graduate.


    Ps, not sure what it takes, though. When i find out, i likely won't come back here to tell anybody.

  • Terry

    It is always good to keep in mind the very quirky fact that people are, in fact, saved from JEHOVAH!

    It is Jehovah's opinion that sinners need to die.

    Salvation consists of Jehovah changing his mind about "certain" sinners; i.e. the ones who embrace the Jesus provision.

    Death for sinners is an interesting subject.

    Sinners die from....

    1.Human infirmity, i.e. "old age", disease, accident, etc.

    2.Direct punishment from God, i.e. retribution.

    Even more quirky is the fact certain people die and live again and then die again!! (Resurrection to judgement). This is a rather compulsive bit of bookkeeping and accounting on God's part and rather a bit of compulsive fuss.

    All in all, the tricky part of the equation is this: sinners have to make a seemingly rational and spiritual decision that goes contrary to their weak, sinful and depraved humanity in order to accept the Jesus bargain.

    To explain this, certain theologians posit that it is really God calling them to be saved and then giving them the spiritual strength to accept his offer.

    Apparently, Jehovah only wants "certain" people saved and regards the others as "vessels fit for destruction".

    Oh dear!

    It is all so Byzantine.


  • barry

    I heard a story once about the San Francisco bridge and how many people were falling to there death while working on the bridge. Once a safety net was in place to prevent the high loss of life production increased dramatically.

    That is a bit like salvation the safety net provides us with a more conducive atmosphere to do good works The threat of punishment at every turn works to some degree but does it teach us to be more christlike ? i would say it would only out of fear.

    What christ did on the cross has saved us we only have to beleive it and thats 100% conplete. The good works and the perfection of our character is only complete when christ comes and is never 100% conplete [I havent seen many perfect people walking around lately]. The bible says in many ways we all offend.

  • bob1999

    Romans 7:14
    We know that the law is spirital; but I am carnal, sold under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do what the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. So then it is NO LONGER I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. For I know nothing good dwells within me, that is, IN MY FLESH. I can will what is right, BUT CAN NOT do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want I do. Now if I do what I do not want, IT IS NO LONGER I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inmost self, but I see in MY MEMBERS another law at war with the law of my mind and MAKING me captive to the law of sin which dwells IN MY MEMBERS. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I of myself serve that law of God with my mind, But WITH MY FLESH I serve the law of sin.
    8:1 THERE IS THEREFORE NOW NO CONDENNATION for those who are in Christ Jesus.

    I find most people have trouble separating SPIRIT and FLESH. Clearly Paul does not have that trouble.

    As for works, true faith will produce good works. Don't worry about it. It will just happen. Good works will not produce faith and those good works will count for nothing. They will not save you.

    "What Christ did on the cross has saved us. We only have to beleive it and thats 100% conplete [that is, we have to believe it 100%]. The good works and the perfection of our character is only complete when christ comes [and feeds us in full measure from the tree of life] and is never 100% complete [until the feeding is complete] (I havent seen many perfect people walking around lately). The bible says in many ways we all offend. [that is, contune to offend, just like Paul]" Thanks Barry, my edits are in brackets.

    Once saved always saved? Yes, as long as we keep the faith.

  • Honesty

    Christian Faith:

    Faith = Salvation & Good Works

    Cult Faith:

    Salvation = Faith & Works

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