by Enlightened1 17 Replies latest watchtower scandals
Leo,
I had seen that site when I googled his name yesterday. However, it promotes respect of ALL religions, and I didn't see any shred of this Lucifarian quote. Also, searching the UN website doesn't tell me of Planetary Initiative.
Of course, it's a Top Secret Project, that's prol'ly why it wasn't mentioned.
LDH
Is there such a thing as a website like the JWD except for ex-and-fading Masons where people who have an abiding interest in Masonic Criticism could go? Betcha the masons would be absolutely horrified to know if the JWs were tied to them, too!
Seems like since hardly any of us here could care less about FreeMasonry today - these threads are getting lost on us. And for use in reasoning with the JW trolls or actives, how are they going to read through and reason on this kind of stuff?
They can't even get the UN connection. In short, I agree with LittleToe; I don't want to read any more conspiricy from Russel's day -
But I will listen to solid and consice proof if they still have ties today; just as with the NGO thing.
And IMHO - it works for me better if I can see it all in one or two scrolled panes - not 50 or so.
James - 33rd degree. I now use my apron out by the barbeque.
LDH....I agree that such webpages do a lousy job of documenting their quotes, and anyone citing them as "evidence" must do a "better job" and show that they are legit. Last year Ianone posted some anti-Semitic material on the Talmud with purported quotes of passages from it, and I similarly queried him about it since some of the quoted tractates do not apparently exist and only appear on the web in versions of the very same post he posted here.
As for David Spangler, there is a fairly balanced page on him in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Spangler) with a bibliography, and it appears that his mystical philosophy is indeed a branch of Luciferianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luciferianism), which construes Lucifer in a quasi-Promethean and neo-Gnostic sense as the "light-bearer", i.e. the source of knowledge and light for man. The following is supposed to be a quote from one of Spangler's books, in which Spangler seems to espouse a similar view:
"When man entered upon the pathway of self, he entered into a great creative adventure in which he took on the responsibility of a microcosmic world unto whom he is god. The being that helps man to reach this point is Lucifer. That is his role. He is the angel of man’s evolution. He is the angel of man’s inner light. Lucifer is the spirit of light in the microcosmic world. Lucifer is the embodiment of that energy. He is the embodiment of all those qualities which builds up the self: pride, selfishness, awareness of identity, love of self. Lucifer was just what his name implies - the bringer of light. It is important to see that Lucifer, as I am using this term, describes an angel, a being, a great and mighty planetary consciousness" (David Spangler, Reflections on the Christ, 1977, pp. 37-38; cited [here])
He also says: "Christ is the same force as Lucifer but moving in seemingly the opposite direction. Lucifer moves in to create the light within through the pressure of experience. Christ moves out to release the light, that wisdom" (p. 40). Of course, these quotes have to verified with the original book, but they seem to be pretty representative of Luciferian philosophy. So it does look like Spangler does talk about Lucifer, but in an abstract positivist sense. On p. 45, Spangler supposedly writes: "Lucifer comes to give us the final gift of wholeness. If we accept it then he is free and we are free. That is the Luciferic initiation. It is the one that many people now, and in the days ahead, will be facing, for it is an initiation into the New Age". This comes very close to the purported quote:
"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a LUCIFERIAN Initiation." (David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations)
Perhaps the purported quote comes from the same book, but there are a few important differences that cast some doubt. Spangler wrote of a "Luciferic initiation" rather than "Luciferian initiation" on p. 45, so it is not clear if he used both expressions. I'm not also clear if Spangler speaks in terms of "worshipping Lucifer". So the quote may have been "massaged" and it is suspicious that in its many appearances on the web, I have not seen one proper citation.
Well for many on this board the devil is in the details. If you accept the Bible translation of Lucifer as not the Devil Satan but as an Angel that brings light, then Spangler is stating that we accept this light, a far cry from worshipping the Devil. But if he is saying that we should worship Lucifer even if he is just an Angel of light why would we worship such an Angel? At least not in any Christian belief system that I am aware of, and there are alot that I am not.
I'm going to take a different tack, this thread:Since it's clear that the JWs have nothing to do with the Freemasons today, what is the relevance?
Ditto: TO WHAT END?
I run into these assertions all the time. It floored me at first, having "grown up in the truth".
It didn't help that a local businessman that my father studied with went on to become a Deacon in one of the local Baptist churches and then the local grand high poobah of the Masons. He was always arguing with my father and pointing out that our eLDER So & So drove around with the bed of his pickup truck practically filled with his empty beer cans.
Ironically, it turned out that this Masonic church Deacon treated me like one of his sons and was more of a listening ear to my problems than my own JW father.
Well, I digress; but the point is, if the Masons pulled off this great coup, nobody seems to have noticed and I reiterate:
TO WHAT END?
Mustang
Just earmarking the thread. Very interesting Ianone .....oops I mean Enlightened one LOL
Leo,
I'm not disagreeing that the man is a Lucifarian. He has a right to his religion or lack thereof as long as it does not harm others.
Anyone can google or wikipedia ~~
So it does look like Spangler does talk about Lucifer, but in an abstract positivist sense
What my question was, please attribute the quote to him that I highlighted in my original post!
The entire treatise falls apart when the first 'point' that's made can't be proven.
That's what I was saying.
It's like if someone said," LDH is a married female with two kids who believes cat shit makes for a tasty dinner! "
One part of the statement may ring true but that doesn't mean that the entire statement is accurate.....
Lisa
http://www.cephasministry.com/jw_was_russell_a_mason.html
A quote from Russell:
"Although I have never been a Mason, I have heard that in Masonry they have something which very closely illustrates all of this".
and:
"Our Masonic friends have it down very fine. I do not know where they got it so well. I have often wondered where they found out so many of the secrets of our High and Accepted Order of Masonry. From the time you come in to be a member of the Royal Priesthood, a living stone, a member of the craft of Masonry, from the Lord's standpoint,.. if any man will be a living stone in the Temple, if any man will be a member of his High, Free and Accepted Masonry - let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."
Not sure of the credentials of www.cephasministry.com, but reading this article, I would say Russell felt above the Masons as far as "Enlightenment" was concerned.
