Bethel Downsizing Spin

by Cellist 61 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Highlander

  and really can't wait for the coffee break to start.

  Yep, can't wait for my cream cheese bagel and coffee on saturday morning. Maybe I'll get two and eat really slow.
• 

  blondie

  As far as know only those that go into the circuit or district work or special pioneer will continue to receive monies from the WTS which is already the standard procedure. While COs and DOs are reimbursed for their expenses incurred while visiting a congregation by that congregation, I understand they still receive an allowance from the WTS. Special pioneers also receive a stipened from the WTS but most still have to work secularly to make ends meet. I would say that it might be around what the monthly allowance was when they were Bethelites, but I don't have reliable info on that.

  If they leave to go back and be elders or regular pioneers, the WTS has no arrangement to fund them. I assume they would expect their family and the local congregation to help them out.

  This does not take into account that many of these people have not paid into social security the whole time they have been at Bethel. They would have to work 10 years secularly to be able to draw on that fund. If they had worked some before coming to Bethel, they would have to make up that difference.

  (That is why people like Ed Dunlap who were past 65 had to continue working secularly well past the normal age of retirement.)
• 

  Hondo

  "This does not take into account that many of these people have not paid into social security the whole time they have been at Bethel. ; They would have to work 10 years secularly to be able to draw on that fund. ; If they had worked some before coming to Bethel, they would have to make up that difference."

  blondie,

  do JW's think about Social Security? Why? The end is near correct? When my now ex left me for them back in 2003 she wanted to ensure that I started up an insurance policy, just in case I croaked before the big "A", and she wanted to ensure I paid her as much allimony as possible (she wanted it for life but the Judge had apparently dealt with these type divorces before and only gave her a very minimal amount for 6 years). Anyway, is their thinking that the end may not come and that they need to be prepared just in case? I asked my ex why she needed the insurance policy and allimony if the end was just around the corner. Her answer was just that, "just in case."

  What am I missing here.

  Tks. Hondo
• 

  blondie

  Most JWs I know are concerned about retirement...they are old like me. Thank goodness most people in the US have jobs that require employers and employees to pay into social security.

  Yes, recently the WTS has been encouraging members to take out insurance and make arrangements for their families. I think this is in part the problems of getting doctors to treat JWs without insurance while they are refusing transfusions. Is this hypocritical, why is that a surprise? The WT has been speaking out of both sides of its mouth for years; using weasel words to back out of previous statements. (Blondie who is not the spokesperson for the WTS and its policies and does not pretend to think the way they do)

  ***

  w97 8/15 p. 19 "Soundness of Mind" as the End Draws Close ***

  Have you made provisions to care for your family in case you suffer an untimely death? Proverbs 13:22 says: "One who is good will leave an inheritance to sons of sons." In addition to an inheritance of knowledge of Jehovah and a relationship with him, parents would be interested in providing materially for their children. In many lands responsible family heads will try to have some savings, a legal will, and insurance. After all, God’s people are not immune to "time and unforeseen occurrence." (Ecclesiastes 9:11) Money is "for a protection," and careful planning can often avert hardship. (Ecclesiastes 7:12) In lands where medical care is not paid for by the government, some may choose to set aside funds for health needs or arrange for some type of health coverage.

  In the United States, for example, many carry health insurance, although such tends to be expensive. Some Witness families have found that certain doctors are more willing to consider nonblood alternatives when families have medical coverage. Many physicians will accept the amount of payment permitted under limited insurance plans or government health coverage.

  *** km 11/90 p. 6 Are You Ready to Face a Faith-Challenging Medical Situation? ***

  While we cannot tell anyone to obtain health insurance, we must let you know that we often have serious problems getting an otherwise usually cooperative doctor to treat those who do not have adequate or any medical coverage.

  ***

  g01 2/22 pp. 6-7 Do You Need Insurance? ***

  Insurance

  and Christians

  Does a Christian who trusts in God’s help and anticipates the end of the system of things need insurance? Back in the year 1910, some posed this question to Charles Taze Russell, editor of the magazine now known as The Watchtower, companion magazine to Awake! Russell acknowledged that the Bible foretells the end of the present economic system, adding that personally he carried no life insurance.

  "Nevertheless all are not situated alike," Russell observed. "A father having dependent wife and children—if the latter be of tender years and unable to make their own living—has some responsibility for them." (1 Timothy 5:8) A man might set aside funds to provide for his family, Russell noted. "But in case he could not do this, he might be able to discharge his duty toward them through the medium of life insurance."

  One responsible for a family might also provide health, disability, and other forms of insurance for its members. Many single individuals carry insurance to facilitate obtaining needed services as well as to protect themselves from going into debt in case of accident or illness.

  Honesty comes into play in connection with insurance. A true Christian would certainly never deceive an insurance company, either when filling out an insurance application or when making a claim. (Hebrews 13:18) He or she would keep in mind that the purpose of insurance is to compensate for loss. It is not a lottery ticket—a chance to live a life of luxury.—1 Corinthians 6:10.

  Christians obey all laws related to such requirements as obtaining insurance. Where the law states that they must have proper insurance to operate a business or drive a car, they comply. (Romans 13:5-7) Honesty and practical wisdom also dictate keeping up with the payment of premiums. If payments are not made, the company may cancel the policy and not pay claims. It is prudent to verify payments periodically by checking with the company directly and to retain written proof of payment, such as canceled checks.

  Whether insurance is available where you live or not, there are basic precautions that can help you to avoid loss and thus spare you and your loved ones pain that no insurance claim can erase. We will next consider some of these precautions.
• 

  undercover

  do JW's think about Social Security? Why? The end is near correct? When my now ex left me for them back in 2003 she wanted to ensure that I started up an insurance policy, just in case I croaked before the big "A", and she wanted to ensure I paid her as much allimony as possible (she wanted it for life but the Judge had apparently dealt with these type divorces before and only gave her a very minimal amount for 6 years). Anyway, is their thinking that the end may not come and that they need to be prepared just in case? I asked my ex why she needed the insurance policy and allimony if the end was just around the corner. Her answer was just that, "just in case."

  What am I missing here.

  I had to comment on this.

  Back in the sixties and early seventies, leading up to 1975, Social Security issues, long term insurance, retirement, etc was not a concern of most JWs. The "end" was eally around the corner as far as they were concerned.

  Fast forward to the eighties and nineties. More and more brothers were starting to show concern over their retirement. One elder I knew(only a few years older than I) who had never paid any attention to his 401k or planned on retirement started looking into aggresive plans for retirement. He actually said one day in service (paraphrased) "I always thought Armageddon was coming during my life but as time goes on, I'm not sure. I've got to be prepared for my old age."

  Two old elders that I grew up knowing led completely different paths to retirement. Both lived through the persecution of the old days. Both of them spent time in jail for being a JW. Both served as elders and had assembly parts and were well known in the area. They had rubbed shoulders with all the Bethel bigwigs who came through the area for years and years. As they got older though, one brother had stayed as busy in his business as he did in his service to Jehovah and built up quite a nice bank account. The other brother kept odd jobs and lived in a run down trailer on the edge of town, but he never missed a meeting and was a leader in field service. Both are dead now. One died in poverty, he didn't even have a car to get him to meetings anymore. Other JWs had to pick him up and take him. The other, just as zealous, but who kept his business going until he retired, retired with a nice home, a nice second home on the coast and enough money for his wife to carry on after he died. What was the difference between these two men? They both believed the same thing. They both were waiting on Armageddon. What caused one to plan ahead better than the other? Which one would be considered more faithful? The one who put complete faith in the new order and did not plan for old age or the one who hedged his bets by being prepared?

  The current generation of JWs no longer believe in Armageddon coming anytime. Not like the previous generations. It might be the focus of WT studies and stuff, but no one seems to take it seriously. Anyone who was around in the sixties and seventies can look at JWs today and see a completely different attitude and way of living. It's still a cultish religion, but their losing their hold on the followers. Bit by bit, one by one, year by year, they're losing the control and authority. The religion will survive one way or the other, for better or for worse. It may become more cultish, attracting people more attracted to those type things, thus having to downsize but maintaing the control they seem to cherish...or they'll become more mainstream, let up on the doctrines and the rules. But in doing that, they'll attract a different group of people, who with more freedoms will not be so apt to rebel against them. With that strategy, revenu would probably be better. So, it will come down to which they want more, power or money. They can't have all of both, they'll have to give up some to have the other. Interesting times indeed are coming up for the future of the WTS.
• 

  sir82

  So, it will come down to which they want more, power or money. They can't have all of both, they'll have to give up some to have the other.

  There it is, in a nutshell.

  Given the history of the org., I'd say they are more interested in power. The money has its perks, but I think what really "gets them off" (the GB, that is) is the idea that they are God's hand-picked spokesmen, and that everywhere they go, hundreds, thousands, even hundreds of thousands will listen to them speak for hours on end, then shower them with applause, then stand in line for 2 hours just for the chance to shake their hand and get their picture taken with them.
• 

  Elsewhere

  I asked my ex why she needed the insurance policy and allimony if the end was just around the corner. Her answer was just that, "just in case."

  What am I missing here.

  I like to call that the "Thirty Year Roof Affect". Sure, the WTS is telling everyone that the end is SOON... yet they build their real estate investments Kingdom Halls with 30 year roofs.
• 

  under_believer

  Most local building codes (at least in the US) require 30 year roofs. That's a red herring. It's local compliance, not lack of faith.
  In any case the "no insurance" meme is still alive and well in the minds and hearts of many Witnesses. Just a couple of years ago an older (60+) elder in our hall commented during a discussion on finances that carrying a life insurance policy and saving for your retirement betrays a lack of faith in Jehovah's promises.
• 

  Elsewhere

  Most local building codes (at least in the US) require 30 year roofs. That's a red herring. It's local compliance, not lack of faith.

  I live in the South where cheap construction and corner cutting is the norm. (Reference the failure of the levies in New Orleans)

  A few years ago I looked into buying a new house. During the "options" phase I was asked if I wanted a 15, 20 or 30 year roof... each respectively more expensive.

  When I was a kid I participated in a few Kingdom Hall Quick Builds. Every single one of them was built with a 30 year roof. I remember wondering why they would spend so much more on a building when the "end" was so "soon" while the local JWs always used the cheaper 15 year roofs.

  I'm glad to hear that in many places a 30 year roof is required... but things are different here in the Cheap South.
• 

  undercover

  but things are different here in the Cheap South.

  I like to think we're just frugle.