old light on mediating...

by lost_sheep 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • lost_sheep
    lost_sheep

    Blow the dust off your ancient Watchtower tomes & delve into the annals (or should that be anals?) of the WTS's past... I'm trying to find out if they have ever taught that Christ is the mediator for all people. Recently finding out (after being raised a Witness) that they teach that Christ is not the mediator for everyone was disturbing to say the least. Just wondering if this is yet another teaching that has changed.

    I can't understand how one can get around these scriptures:
    Galatians 3:20 - A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.
    1 Timothy 2:5 - For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

    Thanks!
    lost_sheep

  • Kudra
    Kudra

    huh?
    I though JC was the mediator for everyone- the endings of prayers always end: through your son jc, amen.
    What is the "current understanding" on this?
    -K
    (raised a JW too...)

  • Kudra
    Kudra

    100 posts!!!!
    not a newbie no more!!!

  • lost_sheep
    lost_sheep

    Kudra, i've always thought as you do. The Bible seems pretty plain on this. Here's a quote from 'Worldwide Security Under the "Prince of Peace"' (1986), "Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members."

    Congrats on your junior membership! I'll be there one day. :-P

    lost_noob

  • Kudra
    Kudra

    ok, then why do they end the prayers as they do?
    the brothers that say that are not annointed.
    why do we personally end prayers inthe same way?
    is the mediation like ours for loan- like the secretary of a company having a rubber stamp to stamp the signature of the boss (the FDS) cause he gives the secr. permission (if that makes sense)

    I believe that the "official" stance you cited its what they "officially believe, but do ANY of the rank and file know this?...

    jeez, the "truth" is always so confusing...

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    The non anointed JWs are not part of the new covenent according to the FDS and therefore can not receive the adoption through Christ and become members of God's own household.

    Not likely that Jesus is their mediator.

  • Kudra
    Kudra

    I get why the JWs believe that, but why do the bros and plain ol r+f JWs say "we ask this prayer through the name of JC your son, amen"?

    why don't they (non-annointed) say "we ask this prayer through the name of the f + d.s., amen?"

    -K

  • candidlynuts
    candidlynuts

    very complicated and has to do with the " legality" of jesus's ransom sacrifice..

    i read at beliefnet.com and this has been discussed lately..heres one guys explanation.

    The mediatorship of Jesus can be compared to that of Moses, Jesus being the greater Moses.

    Remember that Jehovah told Abraham "by means of your seed all the nations (or "all the families of the ground"-- in another scripture) will bless themselves.

    Moses mediated the Law covenant between the Jews (Abraham's offspring) and Jehovah God. There's a scripture that speaks of him as mediator of that covenant.

    Another scripture explains that by making the covenant with ONLY the Jews, (a relatively small group compared to the rest of the world) Jehovah "Had not done that way to any other people."

    Still another scripture explains that if the Jews "strictly obeyed [God's] voice they would become to him "a nation of kings and priests", or very similar wording.

    Well, we know they didn't obey. So fast-forward to Jesus's time.

    The night Jesus died, he made a covenant with his faithful disciples. "for a Kingdom" and told them they would "sit on thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel".

    Paul later said to the Christians of his time: "Do you not know that the holy ones will judge the world?"

    Peter later said that they were "a royal priesthood."

    Paul pointed out that "not all who spring from Israel are really Israel", showing that Jehovah had opened that covenant for the kingdom to non-Jews.

    Paul pointed out to the Galatians, who were gentiles, that not those who adhere to the Law covenant, but "those who adhere to faith are the sons of Abraham" and they are "are heirs with reference to a promise.". He went on further to say "by means of you all the nations will be blessed" --Galatians 3:1-8.

    So we see that the ones chosen to be in the covenant are a small group in relation to the rest of the world. And we also see how the respective mediatorships worked in relationship to the rest of the people on earth.

    (And to any non-Witness reading this, we also see that there would be blessings for others of mankind from this arrangement.)

    Which brings up a scripture in Hebrews; in which Paul talks about the "great cloud of witnesses" like Abraham, Moses, Joshuah, Joseph, Rahab and others who were stoned, sawn asunder, had relatives resurrected, went around in sheep and goatskins, in want and tribulation and of whom the world was not worthy, "did not get the fufillment of the promise. As God saw something better for us, in order that they may not be made perfect apart (or, "without" us.--Hebrews 11:4- 12:1.

    So the small group of anointed, while not mediators between Jehovah and the rest of faithful mankind, do work on behalf of them to bring them to perfection. There are a lot of scriptures in Revelation which--as I'm sure you already know--explain how they go about that..............

    Jesus is our high priest. That is how we come to Jehovah through him. He is also our king. These two jobs have nothing to do with his job as mediator of the covenant for a kingdom between Jehovah and the 144,000. Are you one of the annointed? If not, then you are not part of the covenant and therefore do not need a mediator.

    However, if like me your hope is to live forever on earth, then we both absolutely come to Jehovah through Jesus Christ our Lord because he is our high priest and king. The faithful and discreet slave have nothing to do with that.

  • Kudra
    Kudra

    wouldn't that be more correct, if the fds are our mediators to god?
    or are they our mediators to JC?

    sooo, we should pray "in the name of the fds, through JC to the big J"?

    aaaa help me lord to understand the convoluted strings of crap coming forth from the pens of your servant here on earth.

  • Kudra
    Kudra

    so the fds pray directly to J?
    they don't end their prayer, "through your son JC amen"?
    -K

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