If the Bible is in such a mess is the Quoran God's final version?

by Spectrum 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  unclebruce

  Nice post caveman. I always look forward to your imput on these things

  :::

  I read the Koran (Quran) some years ago and was very disappointed by its superstitious backward view of God. Everytime a downpour in the mountains sent raging water down the gullies, washing away a mud brick Yemini village, it was the hand of God smiting revenge on bad naughty evildoers.

  In the Koran these disasters are never the result of a fatalistic people who for economic and survival reasons kept rebuilding their houses at the rivers edge. It's historical passages reflect the of religious ignorance and bias of its writers.

  For me it reads very much like the book of Mormon, waxing from the silly to the ridiculous.
• 

  Spectrum

  lovelylil,
  
  " Why do you think the bible is such a mess? "
  
  It's in an absolute mess because it contradicts its own morals and values. I started the thread
  called: Why did Jehovah make Jews kill for the Promise Land?!!!!
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/113032/1.ashx
  
  Have a look.
  
  It contradicts itself doctrinally.
  It's open to too many interpretations. Why would God try to confuse us? At least give us a fighting chance, it's bad enough being imperfect sinners who can only use 1% of our brain power. Stop throwing curve balls at us if You exist.
  It's maccabre.
  The early christians couldn't figure out which way to go, must be because they weren't inspired at least not by God. Maybe they were just itching to be leaders of a new religion.
  
  Hope that answers your question
• 

  Spectrum

  Someone along the way decided that the Quran should be read in arabic as translating it would mean losing the exact meanings infered by the verses.
  
  This doesn't make sense because surely, if Allah is still around and this is his book and we can reasonbly assuming Allah, peace be upon him, is not an Arab, then why would this God in his glorious omnipotence/omniscience not be able to inspire islamic translators to pass his word from one language to another perfectly?
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  Robdar

  Hello

  R ecently, I was really surprized to find this scripture in the bible..

  Gen. 17:20 NWT "but as regards Ishmael, I have heard you. Look! I will bless him & will make him fruitful & will multiply him very, very much. He will certainly produce 12 cheiftains, & I will make him a great nation."

  This scripture leads me to believe that God has also blessed the muslim nation, as well as the bloodline of Issac.

  As a witness, ofcourse, I believed that the bloodline of Issac, was the only ones God care a diddly squat about.

  Now, I believe God, has always cared for all races of people, and has had a spiritual outlet for them all.

  Star makes a good point and one I always try to point out to the fundie xtians that I run into. Ishmael was a child of Abraham. When Yahweh said he would bless the nations of the earth through Abraham, he wasn't just speaking of Isaac and Jacob. IMO, The Arab/Jewish conflict is nothing more than sibling rivalry, each side afraid that daddy loves the other one better. The xtians and especially the jews don't want to hear this though. If there is any truth at all to the Biblical stories, the Christians better watch their asses because they are messing with "God's people".
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  Midget-Sasquatch

  Spectrum

  I've been told by a muslim aquaintance that in the original Arabic the Quran was very enjoyable to read and to listen to (of high poetic calibre). It loses its beauty in translation. And that beauty was one of the central "proofs" of its divine inspiration. "How else could the unlettered Muhammed come up with it?" Oh, I'm convinced.
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  lovelylil

  spectrum,

  thanks for your reply. I went to the link to check it out. I can see where people are coming from but a seemingly contradiction is not always a contradiction when you understand the whole bible and do not just look at one account.

  I am certainly not saying I support wiping out whole nations for any reason but I know in the bible accounts specifically, those nations were standing in the way of fulfillment of bible prophecy. And unlike today when man is behind killings like the ones in the bible, we know that God is the one who actually endorsed them. That is, of course if you believe the Bible. As far as all the details as to how they were in the way of God's plans, I do not know.

  I do know that ALL of those nations are coming back in the future. In prophecies in Ezekiel and Isaiah, God has said that all the nations that were killed by him would be coming back in the resurrection day for a chance to learn about him and decide if they want to serve him or not. They are all named, those coming back, sodom, gemorrah, tyre, sidon, egypt, all of them.

  I know it seems on the surface that God is a vengeful, destroying God bent on killing but when you understand what the future will bring and the fact that these people are not in pain but at peace and will be brought back, you tend to view things differently.

  I will not go into the specifics right now as I know a lot of people on this board do not believe in the bible. And I totally respect their opinions and choices, so if anyone wants to know about which nations will be resurrected, they can contact me by pm and give me their initials and an address and I can mail them more information.
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  Spectrum

  lovelylil,
  
  With all due respect you must stop and listen to yourself.
  
  "I am certainly not saying I support wiping out whole nations for any reason but I know in the bible accounts specifically, those nations were standing in the way of fulfillment of bible prophecy. And unlike today when man is behind killings like the ones in the bible, we know that God is the one who actually endorsed them."
  My whole problem is that this "kind loving" God sanctioned it all.
  
  " but a seemingly contradiction is not always a contradiction when you understand the whole bible and do not just look at one account."
  Reading the OT in its entirety only reinforces the cruelty of this Jewish God. The Incas and Aztecs had no written form but imagine if they did. What would you read in their religious text? No doubt about how their God wants certain groups of people dead through war or sacrifice for one religious reason or another. Any christian reading that text would be horrified but at the same time totally oblivious to the real horror of the content of their own religious text.
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  lovelylil

  Spectrum,

  have you read the whole OT in its entirety? By this I mean, every word? I think you may have read parts of it that speak of the killing of other nations, but did you read the parts when God says they were killed as a lesson also and that when he brings them back from death, he will do everything in his power to teach them the lesson they needed to learn. And will then explain to them that if they refuse to turn away from their bad deeds, even after they are given many opportunities to do so, then he will take their lives again, with no hope of bringing them back?

  But the point is, they are coming back from death. They are right now in a peaceful state. That is all I was saying. It is hard for many people who have not heard the true gospel of Christ to understand why in the OT God seems bent of just destroying. It is impossible with that slanted view to reconcile it with "God is love" which many chrisitans preach.

  I agree, if you just look at some OT accounts and do not really understand what the bible is about, which many Christans do not, then it is hard to understand Gods total plan. Most christians believe in hellfire or that the 2nd death is held out at this time, which it is not.

  Anyway, if you do not believe the bible is inspired of God, than that is your choice anyway. I dont think people have to believe the way I do. I only responed to show not all of us Christans are approving of a God that is ready to kill innocent people. We fully understand the purpose behind it and know that usually God is ready to forgive and that he wants to save everyone and reconcile them back to himself. I think It was greendawn who said this period of man is just a blip in the whole span of time. When everything is reconciled back to God, we will not even remember this short time span.

  So, believe me I have listened to myself and fully understand what I am saying. faith in God and his plans for us is not something everyone has at this time. And that is o.k. , I just don't want your or anyone else to think we are deranged and following some evil God.

  There are always two sides to every story. Anyway, I thank you for your input.