jw, a thread for you and I...

by AuldSoul 41 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  AuldSoul

  Some of my beliefs may be the same if it is in the bible.

  jw,

  I have asked several times on more than one thread for which beliefs of yours are different from the doctrine of the Governing Body and for the Scriptures on which you base your different understanding.

  I believed you were sincere and that you had something that you felt was more important to discuss than what the majority of posters seemed to want to discuss. That belief is waning as our conversation goes forward with very little volunteered input from you. If my initial perception was accurate, please discuss with me what you believe to be "important to discuss."

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  AuldSoul

  I think it is odd that you would include 2 Peter 1:20, 21. I didn't want to mention it because it seemed to be tracking back to the "Millions Now Living" lie. If you intended to indicate that that was a false prophecy of J.F. Rutherford's that he claimed was true and in which he told people to have confidence, I agree.

  I don't want to assume why you posted that verse, but if you will explain your posting of those verses I can set aside my provisional assumptions.

  BTW, in my opinion most of the posters here do not believe JWs are bad, just that they are hurtful of others and are blindly obedient to the edicts of a Corporation.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  ballistic

  I think jw is like one of those people you called on in witnessing who said, "oh - we are Jehovah's Witnesses", meaning by their own definition, which immediately throws you into confusion. While jw wonders on the point of this website, I really wonder about the point of jw being here. We have no gripe with individuals calling themselves "jehovah's witnesses" if it gives them a buzz, but with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. I have to wonder if it is futile and pointless Auldsoul.
• 

  AuldSoul

  ballistic,

  I know it may be futile, but there is some reason jw keeps posting.

  jw,

  Okay...you made some text red and still didn't explain your beliefs derived from that verse. GOD cannot lie. But, the Governing Body are men. J.F. Rutherford was a man. I am a man.

  J.F. Rutherford proved he was not borne along by Holy Spirit by making false prophecies. C.T. Russell proved the same thing, the same way. Jesus repeatedly warned against false prophets. So did Peter and James. But don't take my word for it:

  Isaiah 9:14-16 — And Jehovah will cut off from Israel head and tail, shoot and rush, in one day. 15 The aged and highly respected one is the head, and the prophet giving false instruction is the tail. 16 And those who are leading this people on prove to be the ones causing [them] to wander; and those of them who are being led on, the ones who are being confused.
  Jeremiah 8:8-12 — “‘How can YOU men say: “We are wise, and the law of Jehovah is with us”? Surely, now, the false stylus of the secretaries has worked in sheer falsehood. 9 The wise ones have become ashamed. They have become terrified and will be caught. Look! They have rejected the very word of Jehovah, and what wisdom do they have? 10 Therefore I shall give their wives to other men, their fields to those taking possession; for, from the least one even to the greatest one, each one is making unjust gain; from the prophet even to the priest, each one is acting falsely. 11 And they try to heal the breakdown of the daughter of my people lightly, saying: “There is peace! There is peace!” when there is no peace. 12 Did they feel shame because they had done even what was detestable? For one thing, they positively could not feel ashamed; for another thing, they did not know even how to feel humiliated.
  Jeremiah 14:14-16 — And Jehovah went on to say to me: “Falsehood is what the prophets are prophesying in my name. I have not sent them, nor have I commanded them or spoken to them. A false vision and divination and a valueless thing and the trickiness of their heart they are speaking prophetically to YOU people. 15 Therefore this is what Jehovah has said concerning the prophets who are prophesying in my name and whom I myself did not send and who are saying that no sword or famine will occur in this land, ‘By sword and by famine those prophets will come to their finish. 16 And the very people to whom they are prophesying will become people cast out into the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword, with no one to do the burying of them—them, their wives and their sons and their daughters. And I will pour out upon them their calamity.’
  Jeremiah 23:32 — “Here I am against the prophets of false dreams,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “who relate them and cause my people to wander about because of their falsehoods and because of their boasting.”
  Jeremiah 23:31-32 — “Here I am against the prophets,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “the ones who are employing their tongue that they may utter forth, ‘An utterance!’” 32 “Here I am against the prophets of false dreams,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “who relate them and cause my people to wander about because of their falsehoods and because of their boasting.” “But I myself did not send them or command them. So they will by no means benefit this people,” is the utterance of Jehovah.
  Matthew 7:15-20 — “Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].
  Matthew 24:11 — And many false prophets will arise and mislead many;
  Matthew 24:23-27 — “Then if anyone says to YOU, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned YOU. 26 Therefore, if people say to YOU, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers,’ do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be.
  Mark 13:21-23 — “Then, too, if anyone says to YOU, ‘See! Here is the Christ,’ ‘See! There he is,’ do not believe [it]. 22 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, the chosen ones. 23 YOU, then, watch out; I have told YOU all things beforehand.
  2 Peter 2:1-3 — However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among YOU. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. 2 Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. 3 Also, with covetousness they will exploit YOU with counterfeit words. But as for them, the judgment from of old is not moving slowly, and the destruction of them is not slumbering.
  1 John 4:1 — Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.

  And so, I tested. And the words of the Governing Body failed. Utterly. They are false prophets, they admit to having spoken on numerous occasions of future events that originated from the "trickiness of their heart" and not from inspiration of spirit. Those authoritative words ("inspired expressions") did not originate with God. There are only two sources in 1 John 4:1.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
• 

  jw

  What do YOU believe the Governing Body teaches that has NOT been proven in the Bible?

  1. the prophesy of the end of the world. Scriptures state no one will know when the end will come.

  2. the shunning of family and enemies. Scriptures state teach your family the bible and guide them down that narrow path. Keep your enemies close to you.

  3. Stealing is wrong. God allows the stealing of food if it is to be consume for hunger and eaten for that sole purpose.

  4. scriptures in the NWT. Compared to the dead sea scrolls.

  5. If you are a baptised jw and sin after baptism you fall from gods book of life. Scriptures state if you repent and do good you will gain 1 year of your life span year for 2 good deeds. However if you sin and do not do the good deeds you lose 2 years of your life span.

  6. that the 144,000 are chosen . Scriptures reveal some of the 144,000 will fall from gods grace through sin and new ones will replace them from the earth.

  too numerous to list all.
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  jw

  I ran across a topic that asked where in the bible did it ever mention Paradise. So could not relocate it.

  So thought would post answer here

  43 kai <2532> {AND} eipen <2036> (5627) {SAID} autw <846> o <3588> {TO HIM} ihsouV <2424> {JESUS,} amhn <281> {VERILY} legw <3004> (5719) {I SAY} soi <4671> {TO THEE,} shmeron <4594> {TODAY} met <3326> {WITH} emou <1700> {ME} esh <2071> (5704) {THOU SHALT BE} en <1722> tw <3588> {IN} paradeisw <3857> {PARADISE.}

  .
• 

  AuldSoul

  Luke 23:43	3 kai <2532> {AND} eipen <2036> (5627) {SAID} autw <846> o <3588> {TO HIM} ihsouV <2424> {JESUS,} amhn <281> {VERILY} legw <3004> (5719) {I SAY} soi <4671> {TO THEE,} shmeron <4594> {TODAY} met <3326> {WITH} emou <1700> {ME} esh <2071> (5704) {THOU SHALT BE} en <1722> tw <3588> {IN} paradeisw <3857> {PARADISE.}
  2 Cor 12:4	oti <3754> {THAT} hrpagh <726> (5648) {HE WAS CAUGHT AWAY} eiV <1519> ton <3588> {TO} paradeison <3857> {PARADISE,} kai <2532> {AND} hkousen <191> (5656) {HEARD} arrhta <731> {UNUTTERABLE} rhmata <4487> {SAYINGS,} a <3739> {WHICH} ouk <3756> exon <1832> (5901) {IT IS NOT PERMITTED} anqrwpw <444> {TO MAN} lalhsai <2980> (5658) {TO SPEAK.}
  Revelation 2:7	o <3588> {HE THAT} ecwn <2192> (5723) {HAS} ouV <3775> {AN EAR,} akousatw <191> (5657) {LET HIM HEAR} ti <5101> {WHAT} to <3588> {THE} pneuma <4151> {SPIRIT} legei <3004> (5719) {SAYS} taiV <3588> {TO THE} ekklhsiaiV <1577> {ASSEMBLIES.} tw <3588> {TO HIM THAT} nikwnti <3528> (5723) {OVERCOMES,} dwsw <1325> (5692) {I WILL GIVE} autw <846> {TO HIM} fagein <5315> (5629) {TO EAT} ek <1537> {OF} tou <3588> {THE} xulou <3586> {TREE} thV <3588> {OF} zwhV <2222> {LIFE} o <3739> {WHICH} estin <2076> (5748) {IS} en <1722> {IN [THE]} mesw <3319> {MIDST} tou <3588> {OF THE} paradeisou <3857> tou <3588> {PARADISE} qeou <2316> {OF GOD.}

  In 1 Corinthians 12:1-5, third heaven is called paradise.
• 

  Hellrider

  That is 2.Corinthians 12, AuldSoul. But 1 Corinthians 12:1-5 is interesting too, when it comes to how the JWs (and all sorts of other groups) claim that only one version of christianity (and of course, that is their own version) leads to salvation.
• 

  AuldSoul

  oops. thanks, hellrider.
• 

  jw

  In 1 Corinthians 12:1-5, third heaven is called paradise.

  1 Corinthians 12:1 | peri <4012> de <1161> twn <3588> {BUT CONCERNING} pneumatikwn <4152> {SPIRITUALS,} adelfoi <80> {BRETHREN,} ou <3756> qelw <2309> (5719) {I DO NOT WISH} umaV <5209> {YOU} agnoein <50> (5721) {TO BE IGNORANT.} 1 Corinthians 12:2 oidate <1492> (5758) {YE KNOW} oti <3754> {THAT} eqnh <1484> {GENTILES} hte <2258> (5713) {YE WERE,} proV <4314> ta <3588> {TO} eidwla <1497> ta <3588> {IDOLS} afwna <880> {DUMB} wV <5613> {AS} an <302> hgesqe <71> (5712) {YE MIGHT BE LED,} apagomenoi <520> (5746) {LED AWAY.} 1 Corinthians 12:3 dio <1352> {THEREFORE} gnwrizw <1107> (5719) {I GIVE TO KNOW} umin <5213> {YOU,} oti <3754> {THAT} oudeiV <3762> {NO ONE} en <1722> {IN [THE]} pneumati <4151> {SPIRIT} qeou <2316> {OF GOD} lalwn <2980> (5723) {SPEAKING} legei <3004> (5719) {SAYS} anaqema <331> {ACCURSED [IS]} ihsoun <2424> {JESUS;} kai <2532> {AND} oudeiV <3762> {NO ONE} dunatai <1410> (5736) {CAN} eipein <2036> (5629) {SAY} kurion <2962> {LORD} ihsoun <2424> {JESUS,} ei <1487> mh <3361> {EXCEPT} en <1722> {IN [THE]} pneumati <4151> {SPIRIT} agiw <40> {HOLY.} 1 Corinthians 12:4 diaireseiV <1243> de <1161> {BUT DIVERSITIES} carismatwn <5486> {OF GIFTS} eisin <1526> (5748) {THERE ARE,} to <3588> de <1161> {BUT THE} auto <846> {SAME} pneuma <4151> {SPIRIT;} 1 Corinthians 12:5 kai <2532> {AND} diaireseiV <1243> {DIVERSITIES} diakoniwn <1248> {OF SERVICES} eisin <1526> (5748) {THERE ARE,} kai <2532> {AND} o <3588> {THE} autoV <846> {SAME} kurioV <2962> {LORD;} Where is the word paradise?