Another Elder bites the dust!!!!

by Lady Liberty 40 Replies latest jw friends

  • Lady Liberty
    Lady Liberty

    Hello everyone,

    My sister and her husband finally told a Elder friend of theirs why they have been absent from the meetings for all these months. (About 7 or so.) Our family has chosen to only use the 607 issue when dealing with the Elders. Because it seems to be the only issue they cannot answer! Anyhow, he called them and wanted to set up a time when he could come over and explain the simple math needed to come up with 607. Little did he know that for the last year, they too, have been gathering data on the subject. He arrived by himsef,which was strange, and they watched him pray in the car before coming to the door. Once inside, he NEVER offered to say a prayer, something my sister and her husband found VERY disturbing. So he began his explaination. They just listened. Then, when he was done, they began to show him the Watchtower references, and the Insight references that support the Kings list. And then they showed him how those references, that go hand in hand with Secular data, contradict the Kingdom Come Appendix. When he saw how once put together it didn't add up he made this AMAZING statement: Well, you cannot believe everything you read in the literature." They said, "What?? We thought everything that is in the literature is from God himself, that he directs the Faithful Slave." He said, " Well, they are just imperfect men." He said, "We have to trust the Bible, because THAT is GODS word." Then he proceeded to go into the whole 70 years bit. He was trying to say that if you accept 586/587, then you are rejecting the 70 prophecy. Which is totally false. The seventy years still does apply! It has to! He wanted to look over the Kings list, and study it, then come back. My sister wasn't really familiar with the whole 70 bit, so she is going to brush up on all of that , so when he comes back, she can show him how it fits. She said that he was so nervous when she cornered him. He was just lost. Not unlike my own experience with my own Elders, who were lost on this subject too! I know everyone is probably sick of this subject. But if we ever plan on helping others,our family and friends, see the truth, this will be one topic that won't go away. Because this is the foundation for EVERYTHING else! In the end.. he said..like they ALL do, " What does it really matter??" Hmmmmm I guess if you are willing to live and perpetuate a lie, and are willing to accept the consequences later with your maker...then I guess it doesn't matter.

  • beautifulisfree
    beautifulisfree

    Hey- I hope they help the Elder sees the 'truth' to. When I told my sister about it she said it didn't matter because the religion wasn't based on 1914! Sometimes no matter how much logic or facts you show someone they just don't get it...it's like trying to teach a little kid. But, here's to hoping that at least someone else will get it .

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    LOL... I love that "Elder in the Headlights" look.

  • wannaexit
    wannaexit

    Sound like this elder is a bit rattled to say the least.

    But you got the wheels going and hopefully he will use his god -given mind to figure out.

    good work

    wanna

  • KW13
    KW13

    well yeah, good points made and a BRILLIANT reaction. Had the same discussions with my folks and more recently a witness friend of hers. Its a great one to use and gets you quite far.

    Can i point out some scriptures YOU can use for this?

    Jeremiah 25 - Verse 9 says surrounding nations - that would say more than just jerusalem involved in this 70 year period.

    Verse 12 says that the 70 years would end when the babylonian king was punished. When was the babylonian king removed? 539.

    539 + 70 = 609

    The 70 years doesn't apply to and from the destruction of jerusalem, but from 609 when the Assyrians were defeated by the Babylonians. The tablet dating for this could be from 616-609 as its not 100% clear but in support for the bible you can use that!

  • Lady Liberty
    Lady Liberty

    Hey- I hope they help the Elder sees the 'truth' to. When I told my sister about it she said it didn't matter because the religion wasn't based on 1914! Sometimes no matter how much logic or facts you show someone they just don't get it...it's like trying to teach a little kid. But, here's to hoping that at least someone else will get it . Dear Beautifulisfree, I too have heard that personally OVER & OVER!! But by saying , "It doesn't matter" is actually undermining the very foundation of this organization! If it didn't matter, then why is it ones like myself who have sincerely questioned the 607 issue, once known, are now being labeled an apostate?? If it didn't matter, why can we not have our own views on the date and make them known?? Instead, they seek to expell you because you now know too much!! You are a DANGER to the flock!! SIncerely, Lady Liberty

  • Lady Liberty
    Lady Liberty

    Can i point out some scriptures YOU can use for this?

    Jeremiah 25 - Verse 9 says surrounding nations - that would say more than just jerusalem involved in this 70 year period.

    Verse 12 says that the 70 years would end when the babylonian king was punished. When was the babylonian king removed? 539.

    539 + 70 = 609

    The 70 years doesn't apply to and from the destruction of jerusalem, but from 609 when the Assyrians were defeated by the Babylonians. The tablet dating for this could be from 616-609 as its not 100% clear but in support for the bible you can use that!

    Thank you KW13!

    One that I love is Daniel 1:1-4 Where is is decribing the first of the deportees (Daniel included) being taken to Babylon. note what year he ws there. It was in the very BEGINING of Nebuchadnezzars reign. Yet the society claims the seventy years began AT 607! That would mean Daniel, the other Royal offspring, the utensils of Jehovahs house we all therein BABYLON prematurely!! By... EIGHTEEN YEARS!! See Chapter 2 verse 1. It is so... clear!!!

    Sincerely,

    L.L.

  • PoppyR
    PoppyR

    I had this very discussion with my ex yesterday, and was so frustrated that he was brushing it off as if it was unimportant.

    I said if the GB had acknowledged their mistake when it came to light (back in the 80s!) then I could have gone with that, instead they disfellowshipped anyone who would not accept their point of view. .

    He just said over and over "the congregation must be kept clean"!!

    I also pointed out that if 1914 was not correct, then the GB could not claim to be the ones prophesied about, which undermines the whole organisation.. again, blank, brainwashed replies

    I've asked several people to look at this issue, every single one has come back with the Watchtower answer to it which supposedly proves it! Can they not see, it proves nothing when an organisation says they are right because they SAY SO.. ok!!

    It's just like banging your head against a wall, no matter how glaring the evidence they wont see it unless they are ready.

    Poppy

  • KW13
    KW13

    i got frustrated a lot, i have made progress with mum but i am giving it a break.

    They are conditioned/brainwashed to thinking nothing, the answers come to their head from magazines, evidence and proof they think they've seen from books and stuff is actually just what the society want to stick in their heads.

    in helping people we HAVE to want to help them and not just prove them wrong and more importantly stress to them that you want to discuss and help and not necessarily prove a point and that you too will have an open mind. your in no threat of being proven wrong and they can feel comfortable too.

  • Lady Liberty
    Lady Liberty

    It's just like banging your head against a wall, no matter how glaring the evidence they wont see it unless they are ready.

    Poppy

    Dear Poppy,

    I COMPLETELY understand your frustration! And you are right! Their hearts have to be ready! When I explained it to my Grandmother, she admitted it sounded like there most likely was something wrong with the dates. When I told her that I personally could not preach to others something I knew now to be untrue, she said, "Well you didn't make it up. You are just doing what you are told." I said, " Oh, so you mean Jehovah won't hold me responsible for deliberatly perpetuating a lie, because I was just following instruction? I don't think so!" She was silent. My goodness, sounds like Nazi Germany!! When they killed all those innocent people....they said later, "We were just following instruction, we were just doing what we were told to do!" WHATEVER!!! It IS like banging your head against a brick wall!! However, in the back of her mind, she has to be thinking about it! One day, maybe, she will wake up!

    L.L.

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