In-your-face religion

by SlayerLayer 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • SlayerLayer
    SlayerLayer

    A fews days ago, I met this elderly jewish man, with such a personaltity. He said that he was 8 years old when he was in the concentration camp. His stories amazed me.

    Anyway, as it turns out, he is now an atheist. This was really intriguing to me. We talked for hours and then he gave me a newsletter from his secular humanist group.

    There was a very interesting article about how we (atheists) respond to everyday in-your-face religion. I thought that some of you might find this interesting. It actually made me think about how I react to religious people in general.

    IN-YOUR-FACE RELIGION and how to deal with it

    In the June issue of the Voice of Sanity, a letter writer deplored those religious ceremonies and rites that make us Secular Humanists feel awkward and out of place. The writer said he often feels “quietly furious” and is sometimes “raging inside.” Haven’t a lot of us felt that way at one time or another?

    A few years ago, I was a juror on a murder trial in Greenville, SC. The foreman opened the first deliberation session with, “Let’s begin with prayer.” In situations like that, I’m usually the only one looking around while other heads are bowed. This time, though, my eyes met those of a pudgy, graying man whose eyes looked too large behind his thick glasses. He raised his eyebrows and pulled back the corners of his mouth as if to say, “Here we go again.”

    At the next break we introduced ourselves. He was Ed Bryson from Mauldin, SC. (I’ve changed his name.) He told me he was “irreligious.“ Not hostile, he just avoids religion. The Voice of Sanity letter reminded me of talking with Ed about the same kinds of incidents. This is what I recall from those chats. We felt there are two issues at hand when our mood gets out of kilter over a religious incident. First, why does it bother us? Second, how do we handle the situation?

    Formal events such as weddings, bar mitzvahs, and funerals are mostly private affairs. Ed and I agreed that we should never disrupt them. Irreverent grandstanding would be rude and thoughtless. Nevertheless, if anxiety or anger wells up when we decline to take part in a group rite, such as communion, it may be helpful to understand why. Are we anxious because we don’t know what to do or don’t want to be seen as different? Are we angry because we’re forced to brand ourselves as outsiders to be true to our non-belief? The truth is, if we quietly step aside during communion, it’s unlikely anyone would give us a second thought.

    Ed once made the point that there are usually three kinds of people at an organized religious exercise. There are those who have a role, such as shamans, Buddhist monks, rain dancers, priests, rabbis, and so on. Then, there are those who have an affinity for the rituals but take part only in whole-group exercises such as dancing or singing. Finally, there may be visitors who observe the exercise with an attitude of, “Well, isn’t that interesting!” Ed could have added a fourth group, the “quietly furious.”

    If we can develop the objective, “isn’t that interesting,” attitude of visitors, we could view Judeo- Christianity as we would any other strange culture. We could be respectful of the beliefs, customs, and rites without being active participants and without vocal, angry protest. Silence alone does not condone. We shouldn’t assume that others think our silence means we approve, and insist on setting them straight.

    We should attract others to Secular Humanism through compassion and fine example, never through loud outrage, unless we want others to dismiss us as nothing more than a band of roused rabble.

    For believers, their beliefs are the lens through which they see everything. Those beliefs are their hope, their anchor, and their solace in hard times. Their beliefs may even protect them from unacknowledged fears. Nothing will be gained by trying to prove them wrong except their undying disagreement and rancor.

    Ed and I both grumbled about those gratuitous religious practices that are thrust upon us in secular settings, such as happened in the jury room at the opening of deliberations. No one ever asks if anyone objects to praying. They just launch into it. Why does that bother us? Is it that we feel we’re being taken for granted? Do we feel trapped and resentful because someone has forced his or her beliefs on us, and we have no escape? Do we feel hypocritical because we’re angry over the gratuitous rite but unwilling to object out loud?

    Ed and I agreed that those of us who are bothered should pinpoint the reason. Is it only Judeo-Christian incidents that perturb us or is it all religious expression? Do some religious exercises intrigue us while others nettle? Would a Hindu ceremony or a Hopi rain dance bother us?

    If a Nepalese woman turned to us on the street, put her palms together just below her chin, bowed slightly and murmured something we didn’t understand, would we be quietly furious? Or would we, as a courtesy, try to mimic her gesture? Perhaps we’d shrug and force a smile, which always conveys, “I have no idea what you just said or how to respond.” What if her soft words meant, “The Divine in me bows to the Divine in you”? Would we rage inside if we understood?

    It’s likely we’d be intrigued by the Nepalese woman’s unfamiliar, religious expression but furious at the Christian who brassily opens a secular event with prayer. If so, doesn’t that question our consistency? Because in both cases, we’ve had someone’s beliefs forced upon us.

    When someone thrusts a gratuitous rite upon us in a secular setting, we have choices. We can be quietly furious, or we can be objective visitors in a strange culture, or we can politely point out that the rite isn’t appropriate. What’s the worst that could happen if we did speak up?

    In A Guide to Rational Living, Albert Ellis says other people don’t upset us. We upset ourselves by the way we react to other people. He might have extended that to include religious rites. No rite, by itself, is upsetting; we upset ourselves by the way we react to it.

    If we always react with quiet fury or silent rage, we’re handing over control of our behavior and emotions to the religionists. That’s unthinkable. Since we are in charge of our own reactions, or should be, we can choose to react without belligerence and without emotional distress. We can think, “Well, isn’t that interesting!”

    Whatever you do, be sure it’s kind, and be sure it’s necessary.

    — Chuck Wuest

    Their website is http://www.uscsh.org

    Slayer

  • jayhawk1
    jayhawk1

    SlayerLayer,
    I found the article very interesting, but it did not offer any solutions. It said to try to quiet the silent rage by being objective. How can I be objective if the one with the religion is not objective with me? Sometimes being understanding is a hard thing to do. When people come to this forum love bombing, I just want to say, "Look, you have your belief, and I have mine. Now we can all be polite about what we believe and agree to disagree, or we can learn to hate each other." Personally I am agnostic, I want to believe in God, but God has not been present as far as I can tell.

    "Hand me that whiskey, I need to consult the spirit."-J.F. Rutherford

  • ChuckD
    ChuckD

    This was a very interesting article indeed, and it made me think of how I handle these same situations. I must admit that I am guilty of being much more outspoken in my feelings toward someone flaunting their "salvation" through Jesus than I may be to (for example) a co-worker from some distant country who has a statue of a 12-armed Baba Rum Rasin on his or her desk. The idea of adopting a "Isn't that interesting?" attitude is a much better approach overall.

  • Tina
    Tina

    Hi Slayer!
    Good post here!
    As a sec hum,I can relate well to the thoughts posited in the article.
    When n such situations,I don't feel at all angry . While I do not respect nonsensical superstious ritual and what it represents,I do repsect a persons right to choose what they believe.
    I agree about the unwise grandstanding. Tho I respect the persons choice to include religious rituals in a given situation,I also respect my right to not participate in what I feel violates my personal philosophy and ethics.
    In such instances,I quietly and discreetly remove myself to a foyer and such.Then quietly return after the ritual. I've only been asked about that a few times. I explained myself briefly and asked that my right to choose be respected as well. Never had a problem yet.
    I would say I'm more objectively amused than any negative thoughts reagding such. All one has to do is take back some personal power regarding such. Act on it in dignity. I gave up my soapboxes long ago. hugs,tina

    Carl Sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny..."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense-you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones."

  • think41self
    think41self

    Wow Slayer,

    Thanks for sharing this article, it really made me think about some things. While I usually pride myself on NOT letting the actions of others dictate MY reactions...I confess to having had the quiet rage feelings when I felt forced to listen to someone else's prayers. In a sense...I am prejudiced against Christianity...and I acknowledge that it is MY problem, and I will work on it.

    I had not stopped to think how I AM tolerant of others beliefs, and have a patient curiosity when they are expressing them. The suggestion of adopting this same attitude toward Christianity is an excellent one.(Jayhawk, that was the suggestion to follow). Anyway, thanks again Slayer...you're even good when you're being serious!

    think41self

    "It is much more sensible to be an optimist instead of a pessimist, for if one is doomed to disappointment, why experience it in advance?"
    Amelia Peabody Emerson

  • Prisca
    Prisca

    Thanks Slayer for an informative article.

    As I read through it, it reminded me of how I had to view religious acts of "Christendom" when I was still a JW.

    As a child raised as a JW, I was taught to respect other people's beliefs, even if I didn't agree with them. It would have been the height of rudeness to proclaim during a school prayer "You're all members of Babylon the Great and you'll die with her at Armegeddon!!" Not exactly something that would win you many friends, eh?

    Rather, I learnt to either stand quietly and respectfully whilst the prayer was given, or remove myself from the room until the worship was over.

    Tolerance and understanding of other people's beliefs is the makings of peace. It does not necessarily mean we have to agree or start practicing such beliefs, but we should try to understand that every person has the right to a belief system, whether we agree with it or not.

    Sure, we have in-your-face religion on this db, but we also have in-your-face atheism as well. I believe there is room for everyone and their beliefs on this board, as well as in the overall scheme of things.

  • SlayerLayer
    SlayerLayer

    Thanks for your comments guys. I decided to bring this article to the board after reading one too many flames against Shelby. I do not agree with or believe much of what Shelby has to say, and the first time I ever read one of her posts, I was so irritated by what I percieved as "forcing" her beliefs down my throat. I made fun of her just as other newbies here are doing now.

    Why? After I read this article, I asked myself why. I couldn't come up with a reasonable answer. Shelby is very passionate about what she believes. Her beliefs may not agree with mine, but I assume that they provide her with comfort and warmth. When she passes this on to others, is she doing this out of love? I believe so. So why are we so quick to make fun of her? I honestly do not believe she is crazy.

    I don't know, I guess I still get irritated by all of the "My lord told me to tell you" stuff. But really, I know that people like her mean no harm at all, they are just trying to share what they believe to be a valuable gift. Their motives are based on love and kindness.

    Well, I guess I've probably rambled about this subject long enough. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, I just wanted to share my new found feelings on the matter. I mean, pretending to be her god and posting shit is just rude to me. To my knowledge, she has never had one mean thing to say about anyone, including the people that ridicule her the most.

    Slayer

  • COMF
    COMF
    For believers, their beliefs are the lens through which they see everything. Those beliefs are their hope, their anchor, and their solace in hard times. Their beliefs may even protect them from unacknowledged fears. Nothing will be gained by trying to prove them wrong except their undying disagreement and rancor.

    Good point, well expressed.

    If we always react with quiet fury or silent rage, we’re handing over control of our behavior and emotions to the religionists.

    Yea, verily!

    As an occasional attender of Alcoholics Anonymous meetings (where it's all about a higher power, and they close by holding hands and reciting the Lord's Prayer), I have a great deal of experience with sharing in, or at least calmly tolerating, religious rituals in which I don't put faith. They're really quite harmless. There have been times when i expressed my personal views (which is, theoretically, what you're supposed to do at an AA meeting) only to be "refuted" by a visibly upset speaker as soon as I was finished. Nowadays I don't even share my views much at AA meetings (nor do I attend much), because it's too upsetting to those for whom "those beliefs are their hope, their anchor, and their solace in hard times." Who am I to challenge a belief system which is working for them, at least for today?

    A succinct, yet inspiring expression of this "isn't that interesting" point of view is tucked quietly away in the words of an obscure song by Dire Straits. The song is called, "Follow Me Home" and is on their "Communique" album.

    --> http://www.scarletmoon.com/fred/sounds/mp3s/Follow_Me_Home.mp3

    In this song, the narrator doesn't give the listener any history or explanation; he simply takes a verbal snapshot of a moment in time. We are left to fill in the missing pieces to understand where he is, and what's happening. The casual listener might never grasp what the song is about.

    Oh well the sun go down
    Celebration in the town tonight
    All day long they've been slaughtering upon the stone

    Share out the meat
    Yeah, you really like to eat
    Come on, woman, come
    Follow me home

    Well, the priest he cries
    Virgin ascending to the skies tonight
    All day long I pass my time alone

    And when the church bell rung
    I stayed out on the tower
    In the dying sun
    Now come on, woman, come
    Follow me home

    Well I don't need no priest
    But I love all of the people
    Yes I share the feast
    Drink up the wine
    Yes and the song in my bones

    I know the way
    I can see by the moonlight
    Clear as the day
    Come on, woman, come
    Follow me home

    The sound of waves crashing on the beach, at the beginning of the song, suggest a polynesian island setting (otherwise, I might have gone with an Aztec or Inca scene). The islanders are holding a celebration of some sort, with feasting and music. There is a church, with a bell tower. There is also a priest; but apparently the religion is one of those crossovers which mix some Catholicism with some paganism, because there is going to be a virgin sacrifice after dark.

    The speaker is not a member of the village, or of the religion; he's a visitor. And yet he takes part in the festivities with no qualms; in fact, he has quite a good time, drinking and feeling warm with "the song in my bones."

    And when it comes time for the sacrifice, who's hiding in the bell tower? And, who is the woman to whom he says, "Come, follow me home?"

    The part of the song I'm referring to is in these lines:

    Well I don't need no priest
    But I love all of the people
    Yes I share the feast
    Drink up the wine
    Yes and the song in my bones

    Just as we don't need a priest to pray for us at public activities. And yet we can take part and enjoy. There's no need for anger or intimidation at a "foreign" religion's presence. In fact, from our vantagepoint as uninvolved onlookers, we may be able to see how to turn events to our favor (and that of others... sacrificial victims, for example), even as the singer does.

    COMF

    P.S.

    To my knowledge, she has never had one mean thing to say about anyone, including the people that ridicule her the most.

    You are quite wrong about this.

  • heathen
    heathen

    I can believe in tolerance but the things that really annoy me
    are things such as christmas time .they try to create a buying
    frenzy for holidays.Then they try to convince you that the problems
    in public school are because they took prayer out of it .Religious
    fanatics can be very overbearing.I would have a problem with any
    court room that said any kind of formatted prayer.I do believe that
    the constitution states a sepperation of church and state.The concept
    of swearing an oath of office with a hand on the bible is
    completely hypocitical.I have also noticed the news media trying
    to make a celebrity out of the pope .what a joke

  • Prisca
    Prisca
    P.S.
    To my knowledge, she has never had one mean thing to say about anyone, including the people that ridicule her the most.

    You are quite wrong about this.

    I'm yet to hear her call someone a a***hole just because she doesn't agee with them. Considering the amount of flack she receives, I think Shelby handles her detractors with much style and class.

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