Isaiah 65 V 20 something does say "or an old man who does not live out his years" so surely that means for the witnesses using that scripture, there isn't everlasting life? i am not an expert so please be kind to me
Isaiah 65
by KW13 8 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Leolaia
Your instincts are correct; this prophecy about "the New World" (as the Society interprets it) does not have eternal life in view. Here is my thread on the subject ("Growing Old and Dying in the Paradise Earth"):
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skyman
The prophecy was for the return from captivity, the prophecy was not fulled then nor will it be fulfilled in the future. Just ramblings of a eccentric old man that probably loved mushrooms.
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Star Moore
Hey there....my opinion is the Is. 65 is one of many scriptures that have a minor and a major fullfillment... It had a fullfillment when they were being released from captivity and will have a fullfillment again in the future when the new heavens and new earth are finally here as recorded in Rev. 21:1-4....
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Hellrider
Hey there....my opinion is the Is. 65 is one of many scriptures that have a minor and a major fullfillment... It had a fullfillment when they were being released from captivity and will have a fullfillment again in the future when the new heavens and new earth are finally here as recorded in Rev. 21:1-4....
You can of course try to make Isaiah into a longterm prophecy, but I`m not sure that will work. And, do the passages in Isaiah really speak of eternal life (on earth)? Comments on the right, are mine)
Isiaiah
65:20 Never again will one of her infants live just a few days or an old man die before his time.
Indeed, no one will die before the age of a hundred,
anyone who fails to reach the age of a hundred will be considered cursed. (but they will die...lifespan is just longer)
65:21 They will build houses and live in them;
they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
65:22 No longer will they build a house only to have another live in it,
or plant a vineyard only to have another eat its fruit,
for my people will live as long as trees,
and my chosen ones will enjoy to the fullest what they have produced. (trees always die, eventually)
65:23 They will not work in vain,
or give birth to children that will experience disaster.
For the Lord will bless their children
and their descendants. (people will continue to have children - and this is contrary to all
65:24 Before they even call out, I will respond; other impressions I have gotten about the state we will be in
while they are still speaking, I will hear. after the ressurection. Jesus says "like the angels" - to the
65:25 A wolf and a lamb will graze together; Sadducees, with no sex-life)
a lion, like an ox, will eat straw,
and a snake’s food will be dirt.
They will no longer injure or destroy
on my entire royal mountain,” says the Lord.
As for Revelation, 21, yes, it says "death will exist no more", but it also says "a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had ceased to exist". There is nothing in this passage that guarantess that this new existence (after the ressurection, and the changing of the bodies) will be on this earth. The passage even says "the sea will exist no more". And if you wish to claim that this (future) existence spoken of in Isaiah refers to a "long-term" fullfilment of prophecy, then Isaiah and Rev contradicts eachother, as Isaiah says people will die, and Revelation says they will not. Revelation and Isaiah are speaking about completely different things. The long-term interpretation of this preophecy doesn`t work.
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Star Moore
hello Hellrider... You forgot Is. 65:17 NIV...."Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind. but be glad and rejoice FOREVER in what i will create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight and it's people a joy....the sound of weeping and of crying will be heard in it no more."
Word FOREVER is there...and the rest is almost exactly like Rev. 21
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KW13
Allow me. Forever doesn't refer to the people, it refers to the conditions which have already been taken out of context by the JW's. For example where i live will be forever but does that mean i will always be here to enjoy it? No. Also think about it, people continue to be born, no one dies, dead resurrected means...SEVERE overcrowding. Get a jug and a glass of water, once the water fills the jug your stuck, surely God wouldn't be that stupid.
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Shazard
Do not mix FOREVER (till end of Time, which was fullfilled by Jesus) with lifespan of people
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Hellrider
KW13 and Shazard beat me to it... Now, reread the verses with what they just said, in mind. It all becomes clear. Also, this sheds new light on passages such as "death will exist no more", particularly when taken into consideration that the "great crowd" are in heaven, as they have been "lifted up" and are bowing down before the throne of God, and this all happens before the new Jerusalem descends from heaven in Rev 21...