Baptism for the dead

by M.J. 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • moggy lover
    moggy lover

    Would you believe that there are more than 200 explanations that have been given for this verse!! [The Bible Knowledge Commentary - Walwoord and Zuck, pg 544] with almost every kook and crazy putting in his [or her] dogmatic 2c worth. Probably the most famous exponents of this practice are the Mormons who, against the consensus of scholarly opinion insist on putting a positive spin on this precedent.

    There are some things that we do not know in dealing with this scripture, and that is what makes it almost impossible to make assertive statements about it. For instance we do not know who exactly the "they" or the "some'' are who performed this rite. Were they false teachers from within the Christian Community who were insisting that this was a legitimate theological consequence of being a follower of Christ? Or wre they a "pagan" group practicing this for their own beliefs and whose teaching was beginning to infiltrate the Corinthian believers. Whoever these ones were, all we know is that they practiced this rite.

    Another problem is that we do not exactly know what this rite consisted of. We know that not far from Corinth there was a place called Eleusis, [it was north of Corinth just across the Saronic Gulf] It was the centre of an ancient "mystery" religion [ie a religion in which the inititate learned, by increments, various ''mysteries'' pertaing to this religion] well known even in Homer's time - which was the 4C BC. He lauded this place in his "Hymn To Demeter" Part of the rites of initiation into this religion were washings of purification in the sea, without which no one could hope to experience bliss in the afterlife. It is possible that a vicarious [experiencing something on behalf of another] application became common. People may have washed themselves in the sea so that others may have a more blessed life in the hereafter.

    Given the Corinthian weakness for distorting matters of church practice [1Cor 11-14] it is likely that some in the congregation [evidently influenced by the Eleusian Mysteries] were propounding a false view of baptism, which Paul may then have taken up and used as an argument against those who denied the Resurrection. In other words in mentioning the practice of "baptism of the dead" Paul was not actually adressing that issue, but using it as an argument for the Christian concept of the resurrection. Whatever that rite actually was, Paul does not elaborate, because the Corinthians were aware of what it was.

    It is clear from the context, however, that because Paul used such terms as "they" and "those" - and not "we" - that he was contrasting his own belief and teaching from that described here. There is no interpretation that is entirely satisfactory but at least we know that the WTS "spin" that they put on this text, facilitated by their "translation" of those words ["baptism for the {purpose of being} dead {ones}] is patently absurd The word "hyper" used in that verse [Baptism "hyper" the dead] can mean: "on behalf of" "for" etc I have yet to see a Bible that endorses the WT use of "for the purpose of being"

    Cheers

    .

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    I don't think Paul approved nor practiced baptism for the dead. But I do think some of the Corinthians did and had themselves baptized on behalf of dead friends or relatives who had died unbelievers. It is something in their experience that he uses as an argument in favor of the resurrection.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Or its a Marcionite interpolation. Check out this thread:baptism of the dead

  • ezra
    ezra

    when jesus was baptized he received jehovahs holy spirit .the significant thing is that he was anniointed in revelation the 7th or 114th chapter it mentions that 144,ooo would be joint heirs with christ for a kingdom.most first century christians fall into this category firdt they received water baptism but later they were annointed with jehovahs holy spirit which made their heavenly hope possible they were baptized into his death because you have to die to receive the heavenly ressurection.thats why you see some watchtower articles that say some would never taste death at all there will be some that will be living during the end of this system of things that will live on without ever having to die but dont worry those who fall asleep in death that are not annointed will also have the prospect of ressurestion and everlasting life.so thats why you got to die to go to heaven not neccessary for those for an earthly hope just depends whether you make it ot the time when he acts upon this wicked system of things i am sure that will clear things up

  • Shazard
    Shazard

    M.J. I posted Romans 6 coz it explains what it is to be baptised in sens of "be dead". During baptism you die! So what Paul is saying IF there is no ressurection, then baptism is useless... as you die and never will be ressurected. So read context, what use of being baptised for dead if there is no ressurection. If there is no ressurection, then baptism is no use. Then whole Christianity is just a smoke!

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    Shazard,

    Yes, I see that now! I agree that this is exactly Paul's whole point, that any baptism, thier message, their hope, is worthless without Christ's resurrection.

    Ezra, thanks for the reply but I firmly believe that if Paul had the opportunity to read what you just wrote (translated, of course), he'd be utterly confused.

  • Qcmbr
    Qcmbr

    Thanks for the invite!

    Matthew 3:15
    13 ¶ Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
    14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
    15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

    1 Peter 3:19
    18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
    19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
    20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
    21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

    1 Peter 4:6
    5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
    6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

    1 Corinthians 15:29
    29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

    I think these scriptures tell a very basic set of principles:

    Life after death, continuance of growth and learning and a requirement of acceptance of Jesus through baptism.


    And this is an accepted revelation in the LDS faith:

    1 ON the third of October, in the year nineteen hundred and eighteen, I sat in my room pondering over the scriptures;
    2 And reflecting upon the great atoning sacrifice that was made by the Son of God, for the redemption of the world;
    3 And the great and wonderful love made manifest by the Father and the Son in the coming of the Redeemer into the world;
    4 That through his atonement, and by obedience to the principles of the gospel, mankind might be saved.
    5 While I was thus engaged, my mind reverted to the writings of the apostle Peter, to the primitive saints scattered abroad throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, and other parts of Asia, where the gospel had been preached after the crucifixion of the Lord.
    6 I opened the Bible and read the third and fourth chapters of the first epistle of Peter, and as I read I was greatly impressed, more than I had ever been before, with the following passages:
    7 "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
    8 "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
    9 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." (1 Peter 3:18–20.)
    10 "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." (1 Peter 4:6.)
    11 As I pondered over these things which are written, the eyes of my understanding were opened, and the Spirit of the Lord rested upon me, and I saw the hosts of the dead, both small and great.
    12 And there were gathered together in one place an innumerable company of the spirits of the just, who had been faithful in the testimony of Jesus while they lived in mortality;
    13 And who had offered sacrifice in the similitude of the great sacrifice of the Son of God, and had suffered tribulation in their Redeemer's name.
    14 All these had departed the mortal life, firm in the hope of a glorious resurrection, through the grace of God the Father and his Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ.
    15 I beheld that they were filled with joy and gladness, and were rejoicing together because the day of their deliverance was at hand.
    16 They were assembled awaiting the advent of the Son of God into the spirit world, to declare their redemption from the bands of death.
    17 Their sleeping dust was to be restored unto its perfect frame, bone to his bone, and the sinews and the flesh upon them, the spirit and the body to be united never again to be divided, that they might receive a fulness of joy.
    18 While this vast multitude waited and conversed, rejoicing in the hour of their deliverance from the chains of death, the Son of God appeared, declaring liberty to the captives who had been faithful;
    19 And there he preached to them the everlasting gospel, the doctrine of the resurrection and the redemption of mankind from the fall, and from individual sins on conditions of repentance.
    20 But unto the wicked he did not go, and among the ungodly and the unrepentant who had defiled themselves while in the flesh, his voice was not raised;
    21 Neither did the rebellious who rejected the testimonies and the warnings of the ancient prophets behold his presence, nor look upon his face.
    22 Where these were, darkness reigned, but among the righteous there was peace;
    23 And the saints rejoiced in their redemption, and bowed the knee and acknowledged the Son of God as their Redeemer and Deliverer from death and the chains of hell.
    24 Their countenances shone, and the radiance from the presence of the Lord rested upon them, and they sang praises unto his holy name.
    25 I marveled, for I understood that the Savior spent about three years in his ministry among the Jews and those of the house of Israel, endeavoring to teach them the everlasting gospel and call them unto repentance;
    26 And yet, notwithstanding his mighty works, and miracles, and proclamation of the truth, in great power and authority, there were but few who hearkened to his voice, and rejoiced in his presence, and received salvation at his hands.
    27 But his ministry among those who were dead was limited to the brief time intervening between the crucifixion and his resurrection;
    28 And I wondered at the words of Peter—wherein he said that the Son of God preached unto the spirits in prison, who sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah—and how it was possible for him to preach to those spirits and perform the necessary labor among them in so short a time.
    29 And as I wondered, my eyes were opened, and my understanding quickened, and I perceived that the Lord went not in person among the wicked and the disobedient who had rejected the truth, to teach them;
    30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead.
    31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel.
    32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets.
    33 These were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands,
    34 And all other principles of the gospel that were necessary for them to know in order to qualify themselves that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
    35 And so it was made known among the dead, both small and great, the unrighteous as well as the faithful, that redemption had been wrought through the sacrifice of the Son of God upon the cross.
    36 Thus was it made known that our Redeemer spent his time during his sojourn in the world of spirits, instructing and preparing the faithful spirits of the prophets who had testified of him in the flesh;
    37 That they might carry the message of redemption unto all the dead, unto whom he could not go personally, because of their rebellion and transgression, that they through the ministration of his servants might also hear his words.

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