144,000 A "theillogical" evaluation (page 4)

ozziepost

So what does 144,000 convey?

The redeemed people of God, particularly Israel but also in their totality.

Schizm

It's unwise to push a literal interpretation upon the features of the book if a symbolic one will fit. -- Ozzie.

If the number given for the "seven" heads are not literally 7, but symbolically 7 instead, then how are they to be interpreted?

I know that you said: Seven itself conveys "complete, perfect, total, mostly". But "complete" in what respect? "Total" in what respect? Are you saying that because the beast has seven heads that the beast is "complete"?

Schizm

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AuldSoul

It's unwise to push a literal interpretation upon the features of the book if a symbolic one will fit. -- Ozzie.
If the number given for the "seven" heads are not literally 7, but symbolically 7 instead, then how are they to be interpreted?
I know that you said: Seven itself conveys "complete, perfect, total, mostly". But "complete" in what respect? "Total" in what respect? Are you saying that because the beast has seven heads that the beast is "complete"?

Here is a perfect example of pushing a "literal interpretation". It results in debates over meaning in current temporal context, when it is equally applicable to events that happened long ago and will very likely be equally applicable to events yet to occur.

If the Revelations were given to be revealed in the Last Days, and "the appointed time [was] near" in the 1st Century (Revelation 1:3) then how is it that "the appointed time is [still] near" almost 2,000 years and thousands of governmental systems later?

I agree with Ozziepost. Reading too much into the texts of Revelation can prevent getting the import out of them.

Since you asked, yes. The Beast is complete. The Beast is not an eighth king without the support of all the kings. It is emphasized two different ways: firstly, the Beast as an eighth king springs from the seven (complete); secondly, the Beast is given its authority from the ten horns (again, complete) That the seven heads complete the Beast is clear from 17:16, where the ten horns and the wild beast are mentioned. The ten horns are attached to the beast, but are mentioned separately.

This could also be interpretted as the seven heads NOT hating the harlot, although the Beast and the ten horns DO hate her, in which case we would be left explaining what is (1) the Wild Beast, (2) the seven heads, and (3) the ten horns. However, it seems clear to me from 17:11 that the Wild Beast is a result of the seven heads and that the 10 horns would only give their authority to the Beast for a specific purpose and for a very short time. Attached, but not part of, as shown in 17:16,17.

But, the most important thing to remember about this is that this is coming from a "divine" source, a source similar to the one used by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. It is coming out of my ass. It could all mean something completely different. It could already be fulfilled in its entirety. It could be due for fulfillment in another 8,000 years. It could be due for fulfillment next week. It could have been fulfilled last week.

The fact of the matter is, I have seen nothing beyond chapter 3 in the book of Revelation that will influence the way I choose to live my life on a day-to-day basis.

AuldSoul

Schizm

It is coming out of my ass.

Nothing especially new about THAT, is it!

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AuldSoul

Not particularly, no.

You seem to think I am haughty because I have opinions that differ from yours and I am willing to defend them. But I recognize them for what they are, opinions.

I think you are haughty because you have opinions that differ from mine and you claim they need no defense. But you call your opinions "truth."

AuldSoul

Schizm

And that only shows even more why 144,000 simply cannot be read literally - or any of Revelation for that matter. -- ozziepost.

Then how many heads DOES the wild beast have, if not literally "seven"?
Seven heads = 7 Kings = 7 World Rulerships = Egypt + Assyria + Babylon + Medo-Persia + Greece + Rome + All Governments Since Rome (which collectively rule the world together) = seven heads .
Schizm

Where'd you go, Ozzie?

Schizm

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City Fan

Seven heads = 7 Kings = 7 World Rulerships = Egypt + Assyria + Babylon + Medo-Persia + Greece + Rome + All Governments Since Rome (which collectively rule the world together)

OR Seven heads = 7 Kings = Augustus + Tiberius + Caligula + Claudius + Nero + Vespasian + Titus
There you go - easy.

Schizm

Seven heads = 7 Kings = 7 World Rulerships = Egypt + Assyria + Babylon + Medo-Persia + Greece + Rome + All Governments Since Rome (which collectively rule the world together)

OR Seven heads = 7 Kings = Augustus + Tiberius + Caligula + Claudius + Nero + Vespasian + Titus
There you go - easy.

And so which of your so-called "Kings" is it that sports the "ten horns" that the beast is said to have?

You also need to explain what connection YOUR 7 Kings has with the 4 beasts of Daniel 7. The beast of Revelation has features that link it to Daniel's beasts--such as a lion's mouth; the feet of a bear; being like a leopard; and having 10 horns.

Schizm

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wombat

I always find it amusing to see you Bible Scholars refer to who ruled the world.

You name Egypt through to Rome as world rulers and everyone else since as being part of a mix.

Are you idiots for real??

Would you like to tell a Chinese or Peruvian person that they were once ruled by Egyptians??

Did the Egyptian empire rule the entire world? Did Rome conquor China?

Yet I would bet that in your simple mind you believe that the Great Flood covered the entire world.

Make up your mind what you mean by the entire world...

Or better still....get a hobby

gumby

Poor Shizm.....he has A.D.D. He has trouble staying on topic. This topic refers to the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation and somehow he's managed to drag his old worn out thread about the beasts name into this thread and others comply with him. As you notice, he's the ONLY one who's a pain in the ass here. He's the one and only troublemaker.......as always. Proud of yourself Schizm?

Gumby

144,000  A "theillogical" evaluation

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144,000 A "theillogical" evaluation