Do J.W.'s deliberately lie to new converts?

by hubert 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  kls

  Hubert ,as i remember back in the day we were told to say just so much and not to go into to many details of a new recruit. The new recruits had no idea what the right questions were so it made it kind of easy not to tell all the negatives that come with being a jw, Ya know like God commands. (ya right)

  You were only to discuss things like,The new system and how bad the world has become ,blah blah. Once the recruits were interested and wanted to know more and you knew that you had them ,then soon the negatives were told in so many few words.

  Bait & Trap
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  jeanniebeanz

  but there were times when I didn't tell them everything I knew

  bingo... um, so, when does withholding the truth or the facts become lying?

  I believe that failure to disclose is lying.

  Jean
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  blondie

  
  I think they avoid answering certain delicate questions either saying that the question will be answered later in the book, say that they need to learn more information first. Later they say that as they progress they will understand the answer, to trust in God and the organization.

  ***

  w00 1/1 p. 10 Serving With the Watchman ***

  It may be difficult at times to understand such updated explanations, but the reasons for them become clear in due course. If a Christian does not fully understand a new explanation of a scripture, he does well humbly to echo the words of the prophet Micah: "I will show a waiting attitude for the God of my salvation."—Micah 7:7.

  or this explanation

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  w00 9/1 pp. 9-10 Reflect the Mental Attitude of Christ ***

  On one occasion, Jesus said something that was difficult to understand. In response, "many of his disciples, when they heard this, said: ‘This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?’" Those who spoke in this way clearly had a wrong attitude. And their wrong attitude led to their ceasing to listen to Jesus. The record says: "Owing to this many of his disciples went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him." Did all have a wrong attitude? No. The record continues: "Therefore Jesus said to the twelve: ‘You do not want to go also, do you?’ Simon Peter answered him: ‘Lord, whom shall we go away to?’" In effect, Peter then answered his own question: "You have sayings of everlasting life." (John 6:60, 66-68) What a fine attitude! When confronted with explanations or refinements in understanding of the Scriptures that we may at first find difficult to accept, would it not be good to display the attitude shown by Peter? How foolish it would be to stop serving Jehovah or to speak in a manner contrary to "the pattern of healthful words" simply because some things are initially difficult to understand!—2 Timothy 1:13.

  or this explanation

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  w99 10/1 p. 5 "For Everything There Is an Appointed Time" ***

  On the other hand, if we fail to understand fully certain Bible texts or explanations provided in Watch Tower publications, do we have reason to become impatient? Awaiting Jehovah’s appointed time to clarify matters is the course of wisdom. "For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets." (Amos 3:7) What a marvelous promise! But we must realize that Jehovah reveals his confidential matters at the time he deems advisable. For that purpose God has authorized a "faithful and discreet slave" to provide his people with "their [spiritual] food at the proper time." (Matthew 24:45) There is, therefore, no reason for us to become overly concerned, or even agitated, that certain matters are not fully explained. Rather, we can be confident that if we patiently wait on Jehovah, he will provide, through the faithful slave, what is needed "at the proper time."

  or this explanation

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  w96 7/15 p. 17 Maintain Unity in These Last Days ***

  What if we individually have difficulty understanding or accepting a certain point? We should pray for wisdom and undertake research in the Scriptures and Christian publications. (Proverbs 2:4, 5; James 1:5-8) Discussion with an elder may help. If the point still cannot be understood, it may be best to let the matter rest. Perhaps more information on the subject will be published, and then our understanding will be broadened. It would be wrong, however, to try to convince others in the congregation to accept our own divergent opinion. This would be sowing discord, not working to preserve unity. How much better it is to "go on walking in the truth" and encourage others to do so!—3 John 4.

  *** w92 11/15 p. 20 Serve Jehovah Loyally ***

  But what if it is hard for us to accept or fully appreciate some Scriptural point presented by the faithful slave? Then let us humbly acknowledge where we learned the truth and pray for wisdom to deal with this trial until it comes to an end with some published clarification of matters.—James 1:5-8.
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  Lady Lee

  I agree they do lie. But I think there is something subtle going on. I know when people asked me if I was there to convert them I always said no. I wasn't converting them because it was God that made any seed grow in their heart.

  Like Blondie stated

  they avoid answering certain delicate questions either saying that the question will be answered later in the book, say that they need to learn more information first. ; Later they say that as they progress they will understand the answer, to trust in God and the organization.

  I don't think the lying is really a conscious act. JWs are thoroughly taught how to address certain issues. When the WTS says "do it this way because...." the JW takes that at face value believing that there is a "right" way to preach to people and a right time to give certain information..

  I understand the kind of thinking that goes along the lines of "I've been a JW for 15 years and I still don't understand it all. No reason why they should get information that they won't understand. So I just won't confuse then with too much information" What they don't realize is that since the "truth"™ is constantly changing no one could ever really understand it all!!!

  Combine that with "theocratic war strategy and I don't think most JWs will realizing that they are lying to people.

  I know I used to say I wasn't there to convert people. But I also remember getting more and more uncomfortable with giving that kind of answer.
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  NowImFree

  When my disfellowshipped brother killed himself, none of us told my father that my brother had been shunned by my mother, brother and sister. I hadn't gotten baptized yet, so I did talk to him but not alot. My brother and sister had not talked to him in years, and my mother had just been in town before he died and she didn't even contact him to see him. She hadn't seen him in years at that point. But when he died, nobody wanted to admit the shunning, so this part was kept from my father and the rest of my family that is non-JWs. At the time, I remember feeling like I needed to protect the "truth" so it didn't look bad to my father or the rest of the family. But inside the whole thing ripped me apart, because I knew it wasn't right, like so many JWs who know something isn't right deep down but they go along anyway. I would say that covering up or leaving something important out, is deceptive, like telling a lie. JWs will do this to protect the image of the organization.

  JWs who are studying with someone new won't usually tell them all the bad stuff until later, like about the shunning, and the possibility of death due to the ban on transfusions. They know if they told people this stuff up front, most people would show them the door.

  NowImFree
• 

  Deputy Dog

  hubert

  So my question is, Do newly baptized j.w.'s KNOW they have to lie and deceive new converts when they start their own study with them in order to draw them into the cult?

  At some level, you know it's a lie, when you have to give the watchtower spin, rather than your own opinion, when answering someone's question.

  For example, What is 1+1? You know the answer is two, but you say; the answer is three, or you say the watchtower says; the answer is three.

  I believe, it really is that simple.

  D Dog
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  littlerockguy

  They deliberately lie through omission (or change what they already printed) and do not disclose what they used to teach. They lie to protect the watchtower society kingdom interests.
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  IMustBreakAway

  I think they lie to themselves.
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  sf

  JWs who are studying with someone new won't usually tell them all the bad stuff until later, like about the shunning, and the possibility of death due to the ban on transfusions. They know if they told people this stuff up front, most people would show them the door.

  Each day a jw wakes up, still existing on this earth, they put on a mask/ lie. It is what is taught through meetings and their litter-ature.

  We who have lived the jw life know that we said one thing to the householder all the while knowing our fake concern for their well being was just that, fake. If the householder's "heart condition" was that of non-interest in our message than secretly we thought and conversed to our field misery partner how bad jehovah was going to destroy them at the dreaded armageddon. This was the extent of our concern for them. THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE TAUGHT AND ARE TRAINED TO THINK and FEEL.

  This is the main issue I raise with them when the happen upon my porch. "Tell me truly, exactly what your motives are for such professed concern of my life and that of my child?" Needless to say, it isn't long before they can not deny their hidden agenda and turn to leave. At that point I say to them, "that's what I thought...your professed concern for me is not about me, but about what it will gain for you."

  Their litter-ature is filled with what their watchtower god is going to do to the rest of the human race IF they don't hop onto the jw wagon, but quick. Their meetings go into more detail about this destruction, with gleefulness, as they discuss how our eyes will be picked out and the earth will be theirs for the taking.

  Then they actually have the balls to go out into the public, the very public they gleeful can't wait to be destroyed, and patronize us into thinking they actually are concerned for our welfare.

  THIS IS THE EPITAMY OF LYING. And jws are taught and trained well in this task. They becomes skilled in it to the point where it becomes natural.

  sKally
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  Lady Lee

  I think there is also another factor that plays into this.

  JWs are systematically taught to doubt their own perceptions. They believe that the WTS is there to protect them and that the WTS knows more than they do. They hand over complete trust to the org.

  They are also taught that having doubts means weakness or is a sign that Satan is trying to tempt them.

  When it comes to lying I think that even if they have some feeling that they are not being truly honest it is for a good reason.