What is a right?

Narkissos

I've been looking at the "health care" thread here and there and, although I did not reply (it's one of the issues where most Americans and Europeans seem to be really really far apart) I felt like asking a distinct yet related question which probably best suits another thread.

So, what is a "right"?

Are "human rights" written somewhere, in heaven or in nature, other than in human laws / customs which are the provisional, ever-changing result of power struggle and negotiation, in an equally ever-changing economical-social conjuncture?

And then what is the point of discussing "rights," if they are not grounded anywhere else than in the socio-political arena itself? Whose interests does our "opinion" serve?

I personally tend to think that the Marxist concept of "class consciousness" has been too quickly swept under the carpet. When I hear lower middle-class people ranting against social rights I can't help imagining sheep speaking the wolves' language, to their own detriment.

prophecor

And then what is the point of discussing "rights," if they are not grounded anywhere else than in the socio-political arena itself? Whose interests does our "opinion" serve?

Are you infering that it's pointless, groundless and without reason to consider the rights of one individual in one country and to be able to compare thier the rights of those in another?

Whose interest does my opinion serve? I would hope that in reality, my opinion would serve the common interest of everyone. With the suffering that I've been witness to as well as experienced in my life personally, it's my desire that no one would need to suffer, unecessailly.

In all honesty, my opinions are probably no different than most others opinions on any given subject. They serve the interest of those who own them, first.

Doesn't make it wrong, doesn't necessairilly make it right either. It just is, what it is.

under74

I always side with health care being a right......but that's just me. I grew up without it and at the moment--although I'm working and have 2 degrees, I can't afford health care for myself.

I'm a little miffed by the posts on the "health care" thread as well....but this is what (imho) most americans know....that is, in order to be well, you need to be able to pay because others have to be paid. if you can't pay for a service......you shouldn't get it.

To all you americans....remember I'm one too. Our experiences are different....just because you have insurance through your work doesn't mean others do. Don't attack automatically....think about it first.

narkissos- I think the marx concept has been dealt with lightly as well.

blondie

What is a right?

Everything that isn't left.

cruzanheart

[thwacks Blondie] LMAO!

Nina

acadian

Hello all,

In the united states, you use to have consitutional rights, they were called unailenable rights (God given rights)
then we got the 14th ammendment, which turn us into a new class of citizens, and the rights we were given are called civil rights ( rights conferred by the government)
and now we have what's called public policy, which takes away your consitutional rights (unailenable God given rights)

What ever rights you think you are entitled to can change at any time, depending on what public policy is at that time.(Patriot Act)

If you think you have a right, I say test it out, and see what happens.

Many of the rights we use to have, are now against the law.

In the US alone, over a 1000 laws are enacted every year, we must be really bad people. or the government really wants to control us.

Anyway that's my take on things.

Kind Regards

Acadian

tetrapod.sapien

narkissos,

Are "human rights" written somewhere, in heaven or in nature, other than in human laws / customs which are the provisional, ever-changing result of power struggle and negotiation, in an equally ever-changing economical-social conjuncture?

no.

And then what is the point of discussing "rights," if they are not grounded anywhere else than in the socio-political arena itself? Whose interests does our "opinion" serve?

certainly not nature's. evolution is the healthcare of the cosmos, and as far as i can tell, us h.sapiens are the only organisms that have over-ridden this with our own healthcare. now everybody gets to live long, prosper and pass on their dumb genes. which is, ironically, the only human right provided to us by evolution, i think.... lol. he he ... not sure what i am getting at anymore...

I personally tend to think that the Marxist concept of "class consciousness" has been too quickly swept under the carpet.

totally agree.

TS

SixofNine

I've just about come to the conclusion that Americans view reason as just-some-word that is one letter away from treason.

For instance, it would be perfectly reasonable to have a discussion about the idea that "the Marxist concept of "class consciousness" has been too quickly swept under the carpet", especially in the context of a discussion about health care (which almost all Americans will agree we desperately need a fix for). But reason cannot prevail, because any word, and worse, any concept, even loosely connected to the word communism has been demonized.

I think maybe that piece of shit Joseph McCarthy won, in the end.

prophecor

......any word, and worse, any concept, even loosely connected to the word communism, has been demonized.

Funny, thats how we once were viewed among ourselves. We were on the inside looking out at one time, too. Apostates. Who would've ever thought. Me. An Apostate. Talk about recognising your demons!

Narkissos

Prophecor

Are you infering that it's pointless, groundless and without reason to consider the rights of one individual in one country and to be able to compare thier the rights of those in another?

Of course not. I think we have a lot to learn this way (the UK health system, which is much more "socialist" than the French, and works, is very interesting to me for instance).

My only point is there is no absolute, objective or transcendent truth in such matters. Individually and collectively, we only have the "rights" that we affirm and struggle for.

Under74

although I'm working and have 2 degrees, I can't afford health care for myself.

Sorry to hear that. Great point about the difference between "insurance" and "social security". Here we have all the insurance companies in line to share the social security market as it is slowly dismantled, no doubt who will lose in the shift.

LOL @ Blondie; Cruzanheart, nice to see you posting. Hope you're better.

Acadian, tetra, Six,

Part of the problem, perhaps, is that the emphasis on individual rights has cleverly been used to divert people from the defence of collective rights. Keeping people individually busy with the dream of winning in the wealth lottery someday is the best way to ensure the permanence of the system which scr*ws most of them every day.

What is a right?

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