law school

by John Doe 24 Replies latest jw friends

  • skeeter1
    skeeter1

    Many attorneys rarely go into a courtroom, and especially on a daily basis. Each area of the law is different. Keep an open mind in law school. Many thought they would do one thing, and come out doing something completely different. A good attorney can do every type of law. Just depends on what floats your boat.

    Also, carefully consider which State's bar you go into. Choose on where you want to live and work. Some state's bars, like NY, do not reciprocate with other states. So, you may end up having to take the entire Bar exam over. Once you've gone through a US law school, you can take any State's bar exam. You may have to learn that state's laws to pass, but that's what a good bar review course is all about.

    Skeeter1

  • chrissy
    chrissy

    The devil visited a lawyer's office and made him an offer. "I can arrange some things for you, " the devil said. "I'll increase your income five-fold. Your partners will love you; your clients will respect you; you'll have four months of vacation each year and live to be a hundred. All I require in return is that your wife's soul, your children's souls, and their children's souls rot in hell for eternity."

    The lawyer thought for a moment. "What's the catch?" he asked.

    __________________________

    i say you've been working too hard. take a nice long vacation first.

    someplace warm with sandy beaches...

    how about carnival in rio? samba, beach, booze, brazilian babes.... (just one idea).

    meet the girl from impanema and see if you wont come back a changed man.


    :o)

  • Oroborus21
    Oroborus21

    Greetings!

    Law School can be a great cap to any undergraduate degree even a liberal arts education. Go for it!

    A big consideration is the cost of law school. I got through 4 years of undergrad USC owing less than 4 thousand dollars. But law school at 30k+ a year was a different story and I ended up having to borrow most of it. Bottom line is you better want to take on that kind of cost (or consider a cheap alternative like an accredited part time program, etc.) If you go to an unaccredited school or program you might be required to take the pre-Bar exam first.

    I can't tell you anything about prepping or applying for schools etc. since I only applied to one, USC, my undergrad alma mater, and only did some casual studying for the LSAT for a couple hours a night the week of the exam after my full class schedule and working 30 hrs a week at the same time and going to meetings of course :-)

    The only thing I remember about taking the LSAT was that my girlfriend gave me a great BJ (so I could be relaxed of course) in the morning just before I walked over to campus and sitting in the room and chuckling at all these guys and girls who had rows of #2 pencils lined up as they needed 14 pencils and who looked like they were about to faint. Since it didn't really matter to me and I have always been a gifted multiple-choice test taker I was just kicking back. I don't know if it has changed since but it was 3 parts plus the writing section. I remembered being very pleased with my writing answer after the exam and I think I still have a copy of that somewhere.

    I was unprepared for what to expect in law school, being the first in my family to even graduate from a university, and not knowing anyone personally who was either a lawyer or had gone to law school. People were talking about working on their outlines from day one and it took me days to figure out what they were referring to. I always saw doing outlines as a complete waste of time and only did them as actual prep for the exams which was the wrong thing to do.

    I have always been a loner in life (not helped by being a JW in college) so while I was friendly with everyone I never developed a tight study group from the beginning and that was probably my biggest mistake in law school. Having a small group of persons that you get along with and who are sharp (on par with yourself) will help tremendously when it comes to learning the material. Just bouncing things off in discussion can help you pick up things that you might have missed or correct misunderstandings.

    The second biggest mistake that I made is that I completely didn't care about grades and sadly that is all it is about in law school. Especially for big time law firms who come and recruit for summer jobs. The 1L is the most important year. Get off to a bad year and you will never improve your class standing in the GPA race. Do well and you can practically coast from there.

    Of course if you have a job waiting for you or relative lawyers that are going to employ you for the summers then maybe your grades won't be as important.

    My whole law school experience was different than anyone I know because going to law school was a whim for me, a last minute decision, and while in law school I tried to have as much fun as possible AND of course my whole perspective on life was at that time still heavily filtered through the lenses of being a JW. (Sadly during my three years I had two steady girl friends so I didn't have as much fun as I wished I had now.) Unfortunately, I had to work to support myself and was still putting in about 30 hrs a week which if you can avoid working at least your first year you should try and do.

    Even though I was completely casual about the experience, I was still one of the biggest participants in class - a fact which always perturbed me was that there were many persons whom I had never heard one comment from in class but who did fantastically on the exams. Unfortunately, there are no points awarded for classroom partcipation in most classes and most law schools (though in a couple of classes the prof did make sure to call on everyone at least once in the socratic method). So keep in mind that it is all about the exams.

    (By the way, I give credit to being a JW that I could stand and take a position or orally discuss a point without fear or anxiety unlike many of my peers in the class.)

    I don't know about other law schools but at USC when I attended there was only one single final exam. No midterms, no homework, nada. Everything rides on that final exam. I only had one class in addition to the actual law writing class, where the grade involved a researched paper. Mine was entitled "Personal Jurisdiction in the Context of Computer Mediated Communication" (i.e. jurisdiction over the Internet) and I got an A on the paper and for the course. My only one in law school. Another class on litigation had some minor stuff that was unusual but mostly the classes are lecture, learning and the final.

    Take advantage of the social things in law school, we had this thing called "Bar Review" every Thursday night which was to meet at a different bar and get sloshed. Since I didn't drink then, I never went to one of those or a lot of the other social events but these things are important for developing your network which will help in and after law school and for decompressing of course.

    The most important thing to remember is unless you are dedicated to getting hired by a big firm who is going to look mostly at your grades and whether you have any extra honors then just keep in mind that law school is mostly a rite of passage and not much else. Very few law schools actually prepare someone for law practice. Your success in law school is proven to have absolutely no correlation to your earnings as a lawyer or success as a lawyer. And finally keep in mind that all of the law school exams are actually just quizzes. The only real exam is the one after law school, the bar exam.

    Good luck!

    -Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.

  • stillconcerned
    stillconcerned

    A few suggestions:

    -find and work thru an LSAT prep course BEFORE you take the LSAT.

    -get scholarships or grants, if possible, and DO NOT try to work a job, at least the first year.

    -find a good study group that is serious about meeting and going over material. Be prepared when you meet with your group.

    -make good grades your first year; give it your absolute best shot, without being ridiculously competitive about it.

    -Make good friends and enjoy them.

    Unlike some other law schools, mine actually prepared me to do what i do; litigate.

    If you have an idea what you'd like to do, find a school that's known for that realm of law.

    DON'T get married while in law school. It's just too hard....and your spouse won't understand what you're living thru. If you can avoid a serious significant other, do so, til you get OUT.

    DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, SLEEP WITH THE PROF, TA, OR DEAN, OR ANYONE IN AUTHORITY OVER YOU. ..then you're golden.

  • Oroborus21
    Oroborus21


    good points K, I think you hit a lot that I did.

    In LA, Loyola Law School has a rep for turning out good litigators and people ready to practice. My school, SC, is prestigious but it has a reputation for churning out folks who become politicians or judges with a sprinkling of folks who are die-hard PILF types and of course a good number of snobbish partner-tracked focused people with an IN already set up at Dewey Screwem & Howe.

    If you can find a good law school that will give you hands on classes or is taught by practicing lawyers, instead of such superstars as I had for profs like Erwin Chemerinsky, Charles Whitebread, Christopher Stone, et al., even if the program isn't as quite prestigious you should give it serious consideration of going there.

    -Ed

    PS: even with its flaws though I wouldn't change my alma mater for anything though. Just wish I had someone tell me a few pointers like this thread before starting.

  • Enigma One
    Enigma One

    That's all this world needs....another lawyer. Seriously....go get your MBA and go to work for the cigarette companies. Since both are souless activities, at least you get employee discounts on swag. LOL

  • Curious Mind
    Curious Mind

    And finally keep in mind that all of the law school exams are actually just quizzes. The only real exam is the one after law school, the bar exam.

    I can't get over how easy you guys in the US have it. In Australia you cannot do a straight law degree, you must either be a post grad student or do a double degree. If you are a post grad then you can do law in about 3.5 years of full time study, if you have to complete a double then the average is 5.5 years of full time study. All the preistly 11 subjects (degree requirements are the priestly 11 plus about 7/8 others) have exams, they are not quizzes, they are 2 or 3 hour exams, in huge halls, that require you to be able provide written solid legal reasoning to all the answers (yes you must quote and use cases properly) - although they are open book, the other subjects are either assessed by essay usually 5000 words or more or by exam. After you have your degree or during it you have to complete a 1 year Graduate Diploma in order to become admitted to the Supreme Court of your State or Territory. However, because of our Constitution, if you are admitted in one State or Territory you can simply apply to be admitted in another (Mutual Recognition Act) - you need to lodge a statutory declaration that you are a fit and proper person of good character and attend the ceremony in person (as you have to take the oath).

    Good luck, studying law will either cultivate a love of the law and desire to practice or a that its something to avoid it at all costs. Not everyone who studies law actually become practising lawyers. In Australia its split at about 60% will not actually practice, however this doesn't inlcude the number of lawyers employed by the various Governments (Commonwealth, State or Territory).

    The best part of law school for me was the involvement in study groups, working on campus and the opportunity to actually participate in various programs designed to provide students the opportunity to practise what we were learning. Not forgetting general student life, the pub and socialising. Finally the very best part of law school was finally making my own dreams become my reality.

    Go for it - it you don't try it you'll die wondering.

    CM

    PS: Not forgetting all those letters you get to put after your name - (BA, LLB, GDLP)

  • stillconcerned
    stillconcerned

    CM-

    In the U.S., an undergrad degree (4 year program) is required to get into law school.

    Law school is a three year program.

    kdn

  • one
    one

    With the help of an engineer who recently arrived the Devil managed to install air conditioning in hell, so everyone was having a good time.

    God phne him and complained, it was against the rules, and threatened to sue him.

    HAHAHA laghted the Deivil and asked,

    how are you going to do it?

    I got ALL the lawyers down here with me...

  • Oroborus21
    Oroborus21

    CuriousMind,

    I think you misunderstood my quip. In law school, a three year program, (unless you do a dual degree program, I almost did an MBA at the same time, but instead opted for a Masters instead to finish within the 3 years) the student takes a number of "core classes" contracts, evidence, torts, etc. and then a number of elecitives. EAch class does have (usually) a final exam that is about 2 hrs to 3 hrs long and they are not easy.

    My joke was that these are really just "quizzes" because in the real scheme of things, the only thing a law grad has to worry about is passing the licensing exam, otherwise known as the bar exam, in the jurisdiction that they want to live and practice. The exam varies somewhat.

    In California, we have a unique part that most states do not have which adds a 3rd Day to our exam, the Performance Test, which consists of getting a stack of materials and then doing something with it like one might do in law practice. Writing a brief, a motion, etc. In California the bar exam is conducted over three days and is 6 hours a day.

    Technically speaking it isn't even necessary to go to law school, as many jurisdictions, including Calif. have an exception that allows someone to demonstrate that they have engaged in intense personal study of the law and are qualified to sit for the exam. But most persons do go to law school and as mentioned, before law school, an undergraduate degree, usually of 4 years length to obtain, is generally required.

    I don't know how other systems compare. I know that many foreign lawyers come here to do an LLM or even to go to law school here, maybe because they do business for internatonal companies. I know many people from Russia and Ukraine and it seems like it is pretty easy to become a lawyer there.

    I think law schools should be more vocational in nature, but mine wasn't, and I think it would be good if some apprenticeship program was in place like in the old days to first become a lawyer.

    -Ed

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