Christianity and Philosophy - Was it a good mix?

by PeLe, ThE Soccer King 31 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • PeLe, ThE Soccer King
    PeLe, ThE Soccer King

    Hello,

    Just to share with you some answer I had from Jim Penton, the x-jw historian professor in another forum regards this issue:

    " Not all philosophy is bad. In fact, there are many philosophers who defend Christianity. Therefore, I think what Paul was talking about was anti-Christian philosophy. And remember, Paul himself quoted Stoic philosophers when he found it useful to do so.

    Nonetheless, it has to be recognized that much in the philosophical tradition, such as the doctrine of the immortality of the soul, has had a negative impact on Christianity. Yet it is impossible to keep people from wondering and speculating, the basis of philosophy. Therefore, as I have said below, it is better to understand philosophy and deal with ideas that one thinks are wrong rather than simply ignoring it and them.

    Traditionally, the Witnesses and many others, with their anti-intellectual attitudes, have tried to come up with half-baked answers to many theological and scientific concepts that they don't even understand. For example, while I agree with them in a general way on the subject of the Trinity and cannot accept macro-evolution as spelled out in Darwinian and Neo-Darwinian terms, I find the Watchtwer's dealing with these subjects unintelligent to say the least. They really don't understand Trinitarian doctrine or the development of Trinitarianism. And as far as their attempts to get into the field of science and rebut evolution are concerned, they are bobos.

    "Prove all things, and hold fast to that which is good."

    Jim

    Had the Watchtower sent some very bright young men and women on to first-rate universities to study Greek and Hebrew, archeology, theology, and something of philosophy as well as the sciences, it could have created a body of men and women who could have defended Christianity in a meaningful way, and it could have established its own colleges and universities as the Adventists have done. But no, it had to emphasize the preaching work and the dumbing down of the Witness community. The old boys who ruled the organization were a lot of old rubes who were afraid of education because it might have deluted their powers. What yahoos! "

    What do you think?

    regards,

    Pele

  • PeLe, ThE Soccer King
    PeLe, ThE Soccer King

    Hello Dan,

    So... do you think Paul letters are not inspired while gospels and other books are?

    Regards,

    Anderson

  • PeLe, ThE Soccer King
    PeLe, ThE Soccer King

    Hello David,

    You are right about Socrates, a ccording to Socrates itself (as written by Plato in Apology), it was God (or a god) that spoke to him in Delpho (that he was the wiser man in the earth) and that has motivated him to search for somebody wiser than him, and through dialetic method to teach others the value of a live in search for knowledge or virtue.

    In doing this, as stated in another Plato dialogue (Phaedo) he was trying to disconnecto from the "world of senses" and gain a real immortality in connection (since in this case he would born again as a animal or so). Some say that Plato plagiated this ideas from Egypt, what do you think?

    Regards,

    Pele

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan
    So... do you think Paul letters are not inspired while gospels and other books are?

    Nah. I just find a lot more to like about Jesus than I do Paul, and I think that Christians in general would do well to put the gospels waayyy ahead of anything else in the scriptures like the OT or Paul's letters. Paul just seems really uptight and judgemental about everything.

  • PeLe, ThE Soccer King
    PeLe, ThE Soccer King

    Wow Narkissos,

    You're fluent, don't be offended but, you are a rare case for a french (they say that french don't spoke more than a language, as americans, often), congrats!

    I know that some associate cynicism to Ecclesiastes. It was not Cynicism founded by I guy that lived naked in a isolated place (Diogenes), wich name has something to do with dog? I've always thought that it was to cynics that Rev. 22:15 was talking about...
    I found interesting you views about that, but to be honest the Hebrews case sound more convincent for me, the Idea world of Plato are sometimes connected with the heavenly hope of christians.

    Thanks!

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Interestingly many historians openly and rightly recognize Christianity as a child of Greek philosophy and popular cult. Hellenized sects of Jewish cult provided the immediate breeding ground for the new faith. In fact it may be that there was little 'new' about Christianity. The various sects of Jesus cult/Christianity appear to have roots drawing from many wells. Later Christain leadership is being demonized by JWs for continuing the process to logical ends. It was impossible for Christainity to survive divided as it was. Part of the process of uniting Christianity involved rewriting its past, hence NT books like Acts and the extensive writings of Church Fathers.

  • PeLe, ThE Soccer King
    PeLe, ThE Soccer King

    Hi Peacefulpete,

    Are saying the christianity are not divided ever since, can you elaborate this?

    Best regards,

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    No of course not, the Reformation spawned a great many dissentions but the the essence remained Catholic (or should I say orthodox). They use the same Canon the same creeds and interpret the OT in the same way. Rather boring really.

    Here's neat link:Presuppositions

  • DavidChristopher
    DavidChristopher

    Truth has another weapon as well, If you are doing "right", DOING right, it whether you want it to, or not, exposes the wrong, and those doing "wrong".

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Pele,

    This is an interesting link on Cynicism: http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/downing.html

    On Ecclesiastes an epicurean influence is perhaps more probable; this book otoh has a lot to do with the Sadducee's views, which are often connected with Epicurism.

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