is there any proof of being dfed for transplants?
by Cordelia 11 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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Cordelia
sorry sent that up too soon!
reason i ask is its one of the things my dad has 'proved' to me! (so he thinks) he copied the wt from 1964 that clearly says they would veiw it as cannibalism if someone submitted to an organ transplant, but my dads piont was that on the same page it also said 'it is not our place to decide whether such operations are advisable or warrented from a scientific or medical standpiont, it would be well tho for christians faced with a decision in this regard to consider the indication as to gods veiwpiont presented in the scriptures.'
then he copied an atricle from 1980 saying this is a matter for conscientious decision by each person.
so my point is i always thought that the wt forbidded it and that people got dfed for it, and then years later it was changed but loads had already lost their life, my dads piont was it always was a personal decusion,
anyone have any proof the org did df people?
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Bryan
I don't know any, but...
I donated a kidney about 2 1/2 years ago. I told my daughter (dub) in person what I was going to do. Her expression was that of disgust, as though I'd just offended her. From that point forward she didn't even want to talk about it.
Bryan
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undercover
*** Watchtower 1967 November 15 pp.702-4 Questions from Readers ***
Questions from Readers
• Is there any Scriptural objection to donating one's body for use in medical research or to accepting organs for transplant from such a source?—W. L., U.S.A.A number of issues are involved in this matter, including the propriety of organ transplants and autopsies. Quite often human emotion is the only factor considered when individuals decide these matters. It would be good, though, for Christians to consider the Scriptural principles that apply, and then make decisions in harmony with these principles so as to be pleasing to Jehovah.—Acts 24:16.
First, it would be well to have in mind that organ transplant operations, such as are now being performed in an attempt to repair the body or extend a life-span, were not the custom thousands of years ago, so we cannot expect to find legislation in the Bible on transplanting human organs. Yet, this does not mean that we have no indication of God's view of such matters.
When Jehovah for the first time allowed humans to eat animal flesh, he explained matters this way to Noah: "A fear of you and a terror of you will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that goes moving on the ground, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Into your hand they are now given. Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for you. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to you. Only flesh with its soul—its blood—you must not eat." (Gen. 9:2-4) That allowance was made to Noah, from whom every person now alive descended. Hence, it applies to all of us.
Humans were allowed by God to eat animal flesh and to sustain their human lives by taking the lives of animals, though they were not permitted to eat blood. Did this include eating human flesh, sustaining one's life by means of the body or part of the body of another human, alive or dead? No! That would be cannibalism, a practice abhorrent to all civilized people. Jehovah clearly made a distinction between the lives of animals and the lives of humans, mankind being created in God's image, with his qualities. (Gen. 1:27) This distinction is evident in His next words. God proceeded to show that man's life is sacred and is not to be taken at will, as may be done with the animals to be used for food. To show disrespect for the sanctity of human life would make one liable to have his own life taken.—Gen. 9:5, 6.
When there is a diseased or defective organ, the usual way health is restored is by taking in nutrients. The body uses the food eaten to repair or heal the organ, gradually replacing the cells. When men of science conclude that this normal process will no longer work and they suggest removing the organ and replacing it directly with an organ from another human, this is simply a shortcut. Those who submit to such operations are thus living off the flesh of another human. That is cannibalistic. However, in allowing man to eat animal flesh Jehovah God did not grant permission for humans to try to perpetuate their lives by cannibalistically taking into their bodies human flesh, whether chewed or in the form of whole organs or body parts taken from others....
Modern science has developed many different types of operations that involve human body parts, some common and usually successful and others experimental and often unsuccessful. It is not our place to decide whether such operations are advisable or warranted from a scientific or medical standpoint. It would be well, though, for Christians faced With a decision in this regard to consider the indication as to God's viewpoint presented in the Scriptures.—Eph. 5:10. ...
It should be evident from this discussion that Christians who have been enlightened by God's Word do not need to make these decisions simply on the basis of personal whim or emotion. They can consider the divine principles recorded in the Scriptures and use these in making personal decisions as they look to God for direction, trusting him and putting their confidence in the future that he has in store for those who love him.—Prov. 3:5, 6; Ps. 119:105.
Apparently DFing wasn't the official punishment, but this article is worded to give the impression that transplants are condemned.
They wiggle out of taking full responsibility for a JWs action at the end by saying it's a personal decision, but the entire article up to that point condemns it. Anyone who would want to find favor with Jehovah by applying Scriptural principles would have little doubt, based on this article, that it would be wrong to have a transplant, whether faced with being DFd or not.
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TD
"Modern science has developed many different types of operations that involve human body parts, some common and usually successful and others experimental and often unsuccessful. It is not our place to decide whether such operations are advisable or warrented from a scientific or medical standpiont. It would be well though for Christians faced with a decision in this regard to consider the indication as to Gods veiwpiont presented in the Scriptures."
That is the acutual wording from the November 15, 1967 issue of The Watchtower on page 702. The emphasis is mine.
Although the Society was not commenting on the scientific or medical propriety of organ transplantation, they were commenting on its sciptural propriety. Willful acceptance of an organ transplant (1967-1980) was a matter of judicial inquiry, although I've been told (By a blood relative and insider) that there was only one single disfellowshiping during this period
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carla
Is there really proof that anybody is df'd for anything? As all records are kept secret from the cong. even the reason for dfing someone is kept secret, isn't it? What the rest of the cong knows is merely speculation and gossip. The elders can't admit to anything, can they? And the one who is df'd is not to be believed anyway. That's my understanding. Is this pretty much correct?
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blondie
Note the statement at the bottom of this discussion. Why would they tell the elders not to DF someone for taking a transplant in 1980 of it had not been a DFing offense prior to this?
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w80 3/15 p. 31 Questions from Readers• Should congregation action be taken if a baptized Christian accepts a human organ transplant, such as of a cornea or a kidney?
Regarding the transplantation of human tissue or bone from one human to another, this is a matter for conscientious decision by each one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Some Christians might feel that taking into their bodies any tissue or body part from another human is cannibalistic. They might hold that the transplanted human material is intended to become part of the recipient’s body to keep him alive and functioning. They might not see it as fundamentally different from consuming flesh through the mouth. Such feelings may arise from considering that God did not make specific provision for man to eat the flesh of his fellowman when he made provision for humans to eat the flesh of animals that had been drained of their life-sustaining blood. They may give consideration also to the way people in Bible times viewed sustaining themselves by taking in human flesh. For example, see the account at 2 Kings 6:24-30; Deuteronomy 28:53-57; Lamentations 2:20 and 4:10. At John 6:48-66, Jesus spoke figuratively of eating his flesh and drinking his blood. On hearing this discussion and not perceiving the spiritual significance of his words, some of his Jewish disciples were shocked and turned from following him. These accounts illustrate how some humans felt about eating human flesh.
Other sincere Christians today may feel that the Bible does not definitely rule out medical transplants of human organs. They may reason that in some cases the human material is not expected to become a permanent part of the recipient’s body. Body cells are said to be replaced about every seven years, and this would be true of any human body parts that would be transplanted. It may be argued, too, that organ transplants are different from cannibalism since the "donor" is not killed to supply food. In some cases persons nearing death actually have willed body parts to be used for transplants. Of course, if a transplant should require taking in another person’s blood, undeniably that would be contrary to God’s command.—Acts 15:19, 20.
Clearly, personal views and conscientious feelings vary on this issue of transplantation. It is well known that the use of human materials for human consumption varies all the way from minor items, such as hormones and corneas, to major organs, such as kidneys and hearts. While the Bible specifically forbids consuming blood, there is no Biblical command pointedly forbidding the taking in of other human tissue. For this reason, each individual faced with making a decision on this matter should carefully and prayerfully weigh matters and then decide conscientiously what he or she could or could not do before God. It is a matter for personal decision. (Gal. 6:5) The congregation judicial committee would not take disciplinary action if someone accepted an organ transplant.
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littlerockguy
Some Christians might feel that taking into their bodies any tissue or body part from another human is cannibalistic.
Don't you just love it when they come up with the idea that "some christians might feel" blah blah blah instead of attributing those words to themselves, the WTS. If "some christians" other than themselves felt that way they would have faced judicial action and would be accused of "independent thinking" instead of having their thinking in line with the Society.
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garybuss
I personally don't know of any Jehovah's Witness shunned for taking a organ transplant. I don't know of any Witnesses who took organ transplant medical treatment during the years between 1967 and 1980. I do know of a Witness who got a kidney transplant almost as soon as the guideline was changed in 1980.
1967 was the year I got married. I was 23 years old. My wife had leukemia and she needed a series of chemo treatments supported by blood medical treatment. She refused the blood support treatments and she was only able to take a couple chemo treatments before her hemoglobin was too low to take any more. The treatments she did take put the leukemia in remission for a couple years but it started up again and she died from suffocation from lack of blood medical treatment. It was a painful way to die. It took a long time.
The doctors suggested a bone marrow transplant but she refused that too. She put all her hope in vitamins, tea, and the promise of Armageddon in 1975. She died January 12, 1971.
The doctor begged me multiple times to talk her into accepting treatment. The nurses cried when she died.
I was a fool for ever listening to Jehovah's Witnesses. I was extremely unlucky to have been born to Witness parents. Supporting my wife while she committed suicide by listening to the Jehovah's Witnesses was the worst thing I have ever done in my life.