Can the Redwoods Date the Flood?

by Seven 11 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Seven
    Seven
    Science, Biblical and anti-Biblical, recognizes that there was a period of time in the distant past when the earth was barren. How long ago and how long it lasted is a matter of conjecture...unless one accepts the Biblical record. But out in California, almost as far west as one can go, there stand beautiful monuments to the past-the redwoods: monuments that were seedlings when Noah was laid to rest; saplings when the tower of Babylon was deserted; stalwart young giants when David downed his giant. And when
    the tree on which Christ was hung lost its life, there on the shores and mountain sides of California, those same redwoods were "lifting leafy arms to pray." They still stand there, those
    California redwoods, Sequoia sempervirens and Sequoiadendron giganteum.

    If there is nothing extrinsic that can destroy trees and, if the giant sequoia is extremely resistant to insects, disease and fire, why are there no giant sequois much older than 3200-plus years(using the most authentic and conservative age)? We know from
    the fossils that they existed long before that...during the period when "pre-historic" animals also lived. The pick of the fossil hunter has unearthed fossil remains of sequoia leaves and cones in the strata as early as the Triassic. This period represents the morning of reptilian life...Hence, the sequoia as a race has a claim to alost fabulous antiquity. What could have happened 3200-plus years ago that can account for the discontinuance of the giant sequoia?..Thousands of years ago the sequoia was one of the chief garments of the earth's vegetation during Miocene times. It's forests must have been the most imposing the earth has ever known...Under the lava flows of Mt.Shasta imprints of its leaves and cones are found. This is indubitable evidence that the sequoia existed in California at that time. Then a "terrible solitude was the lord of the universe." And, for a time the three common species of redwood ceased to grow as extensively as before. Why? Is it possible a universal calamity actually occured?

    For some unknown reason, giant sequois can only be traced back 3200-plus years with specimens in the recent record. Yet this species is found plentifully in the fossil record over a great deal of the earth's surface. Their disappearance is not likely to have been because of disease, insect infestation or fire, inasmuch as they are resistant to these.(a fire great enough to totally destroy the trees would also have been sufficient to have destroyed their seeds, as well, it would seem.) Another catastrophe that could account for the sudden discontinuation of trees and dinosaurs...and pterodactlys...and men...is a powerful flood. The history of a giant sequoia seed from cone to sapling shows that the cones could have survived flooding up to 21 years-the Noahic flood lasted only 371-376 days. Flooding has been shown to have been instrumental in disseminating seeds. The worldwide Noahic flood eventually receded, finally approximating the conditions of a local flood. The development of the young tree utilizes shallow alluvium for germination, putting down a temporary tap root until a shallow but wide-spread
    root system can develop. This would make development of the mature tree easier in post-flood conditions. Although living indefinitely, the greatest age of the giant sequoia is somewhere
    near 4,000 years old, making its reappearance on the earth about 2,000BC-just at the time the greatest historical authority, the Bible puts it. Has God given us in the giant sequoia a timepiece by which we may estimate when the flood occurred?

    If anyobe cares to view the entire artice, it can be found at [url] http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-134.htm[/url] Has anyone heard of this Institute for Creation Research, where I found this article. Carmel, you were a teacher, how does one evaluate the credentials of people who submit articles for publication at such a site?
    Seven

    Edited by - sevenofnine on 30 September 2000 14:2:33

  • Simon
    Simon

    Hi Seven
    I think I've heard of them somewhere - possible some of the societies quotes and 'evidence' such as found in the creation book originates with them (I found a site somewhere that traced the quotes to the original sources).
    This site [url= http://www.talkorigins.org/] http://www.talkorigins.org/[/url] has some good for/against arguments on a lot of evidence like this. More objective than the hard-line creationists who tend to just discount any evidence which doesn't support their theory.

  • Seven
    Seven

    Simon, THANK YOU for the link. This is an excellent one to have bookmarked!!
    Seven

  • Coded Logic
    Coded Logic

    There are trees older than the redwoods that predate the flood and show no signs that there ever was a flood:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methuselah_(tree)


    There are also many other methods that disprove there was ever a global flood.  

  • prologos
    prologos

    The age limit of these majestic trees, (if you have not done a pilgrimage to them ,plan that!), might be their size, they grow only horizontally  after a certain age, just like humans, and age-induced weakness will fell these massive bodies. Put your hand on a piece of wood that is as old as the story of Moses. Water 6000 meters above the Sequoias? 5000 meters above the Bristlecone pines?  The trees will end by fire and Root rot.   

  • freemindfade
    freemindfade
    Thank you coded logic. I was trying to remember the name of that tree. 
  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    The plant known as Kings Lomatia is 40,000 years old.

     And I mean the actual plant !  It does not produce seeds, so what we have is the original plant.

    I have an e-mail from the world authority on this plant, and she assures me it could not survive in water of even low salinity. It has survived for 40,000 years.

    There was no global flood, and no huge flood around the Middle East, at the time the Bible says.

    The whole Noah's Flood story is myth.

  • _Morpheus
    _Morpheus
    Great links and information on the bristlecone pines.  As a side note/line of reasoning, its not entirely logical to suggest "oh there are no redwoods older than the flood ergo the flood happened".  One would also need to reason on how they restablished after the flood.  A catrophy of that magnitude , covering the globe for a year, would have killed any viable seedstock, being soaked that long with no sun light.  If you want to play the half assed logic card at least play it all the way through.
  • Coded Logic
    Coded Logic
    Good point point Morpheus!  Logical fallacy of post hoc, ergo propter hoc:  http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Post_hoc,_ergo_propter_hoc
  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Morpheus - "If you want to play the half-assed logic card, at least play it all the way through."

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