From what I`ve learned about the Bible and early judaism, I`ve realised that Judaism wasn`t originally a monotheistic religion. When Moses comes down from the mountain, in Exodus 19 with the commandments, and "thou shalt not have any other gods besides me" (or whatever...), this doesn`t mean that no other gods existed, just that Yhwh was their God, and this is the one they should worship (for bringing them out Egypt etc etc). And then he sees his people who have built the gold calf, and he gets all upset, cause they just wont listen to him. Also, in this early stage of judaism, Satan isn`t mentioned much in the entire OT. BUT: He IS in Genesis 3! So, this is really weird. Does anyone know anything about the origin of Genesis, when it was written (compared to the other books in the Torah), etc? Was it written at a later stage in the development of Judaism? Or did they go back and change it later? Or is "the snake" really something else, NOT Satan? Could he be an...image of mans desires, weakness when it comes to respecting Gods commands, etc? Input please...
The snake in Genesis
by Hellrider 19 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Hellrider
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funkyderek
Satan isn`t mentioned much in the entire OT. BUT: He IS in Genesis 3!
No he isn't. Read it carefully. There's God, Adam, Eve and a talking snake - but no Satan! He was a much later invention.
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daystar
Also, note how the serpent was also portrayed in a very positive light at times. How confusing?
Do you know where this symbol came from?
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Narkissos
The extant book of Genesis is certainly a post-exilic production, although it can be traced back to earlier traditions here and there. As for the story in chapter 2:4a--3, it is probably older but it is worth noting that there is hardly any reference to it in the rest of the OT. The snake is never identified to Satan before the Hellenistic Wisdom of Solomon, which is still less than precise: "through the devil's envy death entered the world, nd those who belong to his company experience it" (2:24).
Otoh the snake is a very ancient symbol, connected both to wisdom (Genesis 3:1, "Now the serpent was more crafty -- or discreet, with a pun on the word for "naked" -- than any other wild animal"), and the mysteries of death and life (for being potentially deadly and eternal -- so its sloughing was usually interpreted). One famous example is in the table XI of Epic of Gilgamesh (the one with the Flood story from the older Atrahasis epic), on how a snake carried away the opportunity of everlasting life from man:
Utanapishtim spoke to Gilgamesh, saying:
"Gilgamesh, you came here exhausted and worn out.
What can I give you so you can return to your land?
I will disclose to you a thing that is hidden, Gilgamesh,
a... I will tell you.
There is a plant... like a boxthorn,
whose thorns will prick your hand like a rose.
If your hands reach that plant you will become a young
man again."Hearing this, Gilgamesh opened a conduit(!) (to the Apsu)
and attached heavy stones to his feet.
They dragged him down, to the Apsu they pulled him.
He took the plant, though it pricked his hand,
and cut the heavy stones from his feet,
letting the waves(?) throw him onto its shores.
Gilgamesh spoke to Urshanabi, the ferryman, saying:
"Urshanabi, this plant is a plant against decay(!)
by which a man can attain his survival(!). I will bring it to Uruk-Haven,
and have an old man eat the plant to test it.
The plant's name is 'The Old Man Becomes a Young Man.'"
Then I will eat it and return to the condition of my youth."At twenty leagues they broke for some food,
at thirty leagues they stopped for the night.
Seeing a spring and how cool its waters were,
Gilgamesh went down and was bathing in the water.
A snake smelled the fragrance of the plant,
silently came up and carried off the plant.
While going back it sloughed off its casing.'At that point Gilgamesh sat down, weeping,
his tears streaming over the side of his nose. -
Cygnus
Christadelphians do not believe in a personal devil. They believe the snake actually talked - cause that's what the Bible says. Here is a brief article explaining why they don't believe Satan is a person and demons don't exist: http://www.christadelphia.org/evil.htm
You also might want to check out The Origins of Satan by Elaine Pagels.
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Hellrider
Thanks, all!
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Narkissos
A great Leolaia thread here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/73244/1.ashx
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Cygnus
Is there such a thing as a non-great Leolaia thread?
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Frannie Banannie
Do you know where this symbol came from?
Daystar, this symbol (the caduceus - sp?) is derived from the story in the OT about one of the prophets holding up a copper serpent on a staff, so that the people that were afflicted were ordered to keep looking at it in order to be cured from their affliction.
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daystar
Frannie
I know that. I was asking if Hellrider did.
The serpent has often been a symbol for wisdom and healing. The wings bring to mind Mercury, also symbolising wisdom, also as a messenger of the gods. The two snakes intertwined brings to mind the chakra system as well as the Tree of Life, as well as... the DNA strand. The pole? Well that is obviously a phallic symbol, also solar.
Do an image search for Baphomet and note what is in his lap in one popular version. ?? A caduceus.
Solve et coagula