by caz 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Surely if they know that no one has been chosen to do so prior to the meeting then they could have just stayed home eating their Easter eggs!!!
EASTER EGGS!?!?! Caz Easter Eggs are just NOT allowed. It's all very pagan the whole easter egg thing. So I guess in light of them not being able to eat chocolate shaped like an egg, bunny or a bilby in Australia's case they end up heading to the memorial instead...
thats funny I remember my mom and sis sneaking caduby cream easter eggs, I guess they were so deliciously sinful they could not help themselves....lmao
J
As I understand it Revelation ch. 7 (take it from the top) tells it all. The 144.000 are the Bride taken from the 12 tribes of Israel.Gentiles and Heathens were never in the Bride-plan. They were gathered within 30 years after Jesus'death and resurrection. The great multitude as in verse 9 is the Servant of the Bride, the real church of Christ on earth as opposite to the Roman Cath. Church that had and has the Bride-claim. When the Servant of the Bride was gathered it was time for earthly rebellion and reform, or the Renaissance, which means, as you know, Rebirth or the next chapter, this time of silent worship. When Satan couldnt find the 'people of Grace', he started to build the churches of wood and stone and lured the faithfull inside saying: this is a house of God and here the Word of God - quoting from the Biblebooks - is spoken.Crap ofcourse but very smart. Churches of stone and wood were never part of Jesus'preaching. The world was f*cked again by Lucifer. Credit where credit is due, this angel knows how to seduce. Wish my girlfriend was this good. Cheers. the Fox
I asked that a million times, the only answer I got and keep getting is, "they just know."
Hi Enigmatic,
You've got me slipping back into Pioneer mode here! YIKES!
But I need to correct you: you said
"so if only the 144k are sons of christ..."
Not sons of Christ, sons of GOD
"The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children."
17 If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together.
This scripture provides part of the foundation for the secret doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses: that those "annointed" who are part of the "body" of Christ are also active participants in the redemption of sinful mankind; that it is not just the sacrifice of Jesus' life that paid the price, but the "sacrifice" of the annointed also.
It's one of the weirdest things you'll never hear a rank-and-file "other sheep" talk about, because most of them never heard of this, but it IS a Watchtower doctrine.
i find it sad and symbolic that the symbols of Christ's sacrifice are passed, but not taken..
Watchtower is offering the 'obstructed view seats'.....when first row is freely available.
Hi Caz!
My question is: How do they, ( the ones who decide to take a sip or have a nibble) know that they have been chosen, what is the method of Jehovah's communication to them to enlighten them to their future role.
Keep in mind that it seems to be a very closely guarded secret for some reason, disguised under some stupid analogy of how you know if you are a man or woman, that is you just know. It doesn't actually work that way.
You will probably not beleive the answer, but here goes: A person thinks about, deep in their being, that after the dust of the big A settles where do they hope to be, on earth or in heaven. That's it. A person hopes to survive Armegeddon and live either on earth forever, or they hope to be in heaven. I could care less about earth, although was hoping I could visit from time to time. When I brought up the notion of being annointed, an elder told me "you are either lying to me or yourself." How would he know? Schmuck. It was another annointed that helped me to see past all the mysticism used to curtail the numbers. There is a very old watchtower article about it, I believe from 1943. But the basic jist is that they choose to have that hope. After all, that's why it's called a hope. It's not called a ticket or a guarantee, just a hope. Then it's put in God's hands to validate the hope upon death.
Ironically, of the 'normal' annointed, tons of them leave the organization every year. Many DA but there are also many who are Df'ed for apostacy or promoting sects within the org. I thought it was cool, when I was looking at other Christian denominations and realizing that nearly all of them had the 'heavevnly hope'. It only seems special within the witnesses, not because the 'annointed' are any better, but because the other witness are so beaten down to believe that heaven is too special for them. What a sad way to present such a wonderful hope! Their God is too small and the internal politics of the wt is too big.
Christ offers the hope to everyone, and those that deter people from accepting that hope at the memorial are the worst sort of vipers to me. I see the Pharisees in action at no better time than at the 'memorial'.
Maybe Frannie will give us her experience too, on how it was for her.
Here's some light reading for you who really want to know the truth about the 144,000 and who they are and are not.
The Watchtower's view of the 144,000 is not scriptural. This post should answer nearly all your questions on this subject.
THE GREAT DIVIDE:
“ANOINTED CLASS” & “OTHER SHEEP”
Watchtower claims the “Anointed Class” is the 144000 JW’s who go to heaven.
(Rev 7:4; 14:1-3)
All other JW’s are a part of God’s “other sheep” (Jn 10:16 - misinterpreted) and live forever on a paradise earth. Only those “born again” – thereby becoming “sons” of God – can share in this heavenly kingdom (Jn 1:12,13; Rom 8:16,17; 1 Pet 1:3,4)
The 144000 of true believers (Lk 12:32) allegedly began with the 12 apostles and was filled by 1935 AD (Judge R.F. Rutherford received ‘revelation’).
Most JW’s are not members of the “Anointed Class”. The Watchtower teaches that only members of the “Anointed Class”:
o Become born again (Jn 3:3-8; Titus 3:5; 1 Pet 1:3; 1 Jn 5:1)
o Become adopted as “sons” of God (Jn 1:12,13; Rom 8:14-17; Gal 4:6,7; Eph 1:5)
o Are brothers w/ Christ (Rom 8:29; Heb 2:11-17; 3:1)
o Are conformed to Christ’s image (Rom 8:29; 2 Cor 3:18)
o Are in union w/ Christ (2 Cor 5:17; Eph 1:3)
o Are heirs w/ Christ (Rom 8:17)
o Are members of New Covenant (Lk 22:20; Heb 12:20-22)
o Can partake of the Lord’s Supper (Lk 22:15-20; 1 Cor 11:20-29)
o Are baptized into Christ’s death (Rom 6:3-8; Phil 3:10,11;
o Are members of the church (Eph 1:22,23; 1:18)
o Are members of Christ’s body (Rom 12:5; 1 Cor 12:13; Eph 4:4)
o Are members in God’s temple (1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22; 1 Pet 2:5)
o Are members of Abraham’s seed (Gal 3:26-29; 6:15,16)
o Are members of the royal priesthood (1 Pet 2:4-9; Rev 1:6; 5:10)
o Are justified by faith (Rom 3:22-28; 5:1; Titus 3:7)
o Are sanctified (1 Cor 1:2; 6:11; Eph 1:4; Heb 12:14)
o Receive glorified bodies (1 Cor 15:40-54; Phil 3:21)
o Enjoy life in heaven (Jn 14:2,3; 1 Cor 15:50; 1 Pet 1:4)
o Will rule w/ Christ (1 Cor 6:2; 2 Tim 2:12; Rev 20:6)
o Will see Christ and God (Matt 5:8; 1 Jn 3:2)
REV 7:4; 14:1-3
144000 in the “Anointed Class”
The Watchtower switches interpretive methodology half way through Rev 7:4. They interpret the first half literally (144000 sealed) and the second half figuratively (12 tribes of ).
o The Watchtower teaches that women are a part of the “Anointed Class”.
o Scripture says women are excluded from the 144000 (Rev 14:4) and the men will not have defiled themselves with women.
\ the 144000 men are unmarried or celibate.
o Scripture states a heavenly destiny awaits all who believe in Jesus Christ, not just 144000 individuals. (Eph 2:19; Phil 3:20; 3:1; Heb 3:1; 12:22; 2 Pet 1:10,11)
o All who believe in Christ are heirs of the eternal kingdom (Gal 3:29; 4:28-31; Titus 3:7; James 2:5)
All believers (Jews & Gentiles) will be together in “one flock” under “one shepherd” (Jn 10:16) – not one flock in heaven and one flock on earth.
REV 7:9
The “Great Multitude”
Watchtower teaches that Rev 7:9 refers to the “other sheep” mentioned in John 10:16 and cannot become members of the body of Christ, be born again, etc. (see notes on “The Great Divide” – back page). They are an underprivileged group.
Questions:
o Where does it say the great multitude is exempt from heaven?
o Where does it say the great multitude is relegated to live on earth?
The vision in Revelation is of a great multitude physically present before the throne and the Lamb, just as the angels in Rev 7:11 are before the throne worshiping God. The Greek word for “before” is enopion. It is used a number of times in Revelation to speak of those in the physical presence of God’s throne (Rev 5:8; 7:11; 14:3).
Rev 14:3 is in reference to the 144000 being “before” (enopion) the throne.
The word used in Rev 7:9 is not in the sense of “in sight of” (as the Watchtower argues), but in the sense “of place, before someone or something.”
The great multitude is in God’s temple.
(Rev 7:15)
Where is God’s temple?
(Rev 11:19; 14:17)
\ The great multitude is “before the throne”, “in front of the Lamb”, and they serve God day and night “in his temple” which is “in heaven”.
**Rev 19:1,2 (“great multitude in heaven”)
LUKE 12:32
The “Little Flock”
The Watchtower believes this “little flock” is the 144000 who have a heavenly destiny (JW doctrine) – see Rev 7:4.
The context of Luke 12:32 encompasses v.22-34 (13 verses). Jesus was speaking to his disciples (little flock). There is nothing to relate this verse to the 144000 in Revelation 7, 14.
The disciples are called “sheep” in Jesus’ flock: Matt 10:16; 26:31.
**The idea that entrance into this so-called “little flock” of anointed believers would be closed in the year 1935, is not based on Scripture, but on an alleged ‘revelation’ givewn to J.F. Rutherford. NOTE: Watchtower Society claims they are the only group on earth that truly follows the Bible.
Jesus spoke of the kingdom of heaven and the thoughout his ministry. He never restricted the kingdom to 144000 people, but taught that all people should seek the kingdom and said whoever sought it would find it (Matt 9:35-38; Mk 1:14,15; Lk 12:22-34).
o Who enters the kingdom? The one born of water and the Spirit (John 3:5-7).
o Who is born again? Whoever believes, not only 144000 (1 Jn 5:1).
OT Saints in Heaven or on Earth?
The Watchtower Society teaches that pre-Christian saints such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, & OT prophets are not a part of this “little flock”, but are of the “other sheep” (John 10:16) and have an earthly hope, not a heavenly hope.
The OT saints do have a heavenly hope.
(Heb 11, emphasize v.13,16) “…a heavenly country.”
o Elijah went to heaven (2 Kings 2:1,11)
o Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob are in heaven (Matt 8:11)
o All the OT prophets are to be with Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob (Lk 13:28)
JOHN 10:16
The “other sheep” (opposed to 144000)
In context, the “other sheep” is referring to Gentile believers. In the scriptures, the Jews were called “the lost sheep of ”
(Matt 10:6; 15:24) and those Jews who followed Jesus Christ were called His “sheep” (John 10).
Jesus referred to his Jewish disciples as sheep in his flock (Matt 10:16; 26:31).
\ the words of Jesus, “I have other sheep, which are not of this fold” (Jn 10:16) are clearly referencing Gentile believers.
Jews and Gentiles are reconciled in one body (Eph 2:11-22).
We are all one in Christ Jesus (Gal 3:28)
There is no distinction btwn Greek and Jew ( 3:11).
**There will be no distinction btwn an “anointed class” and “other sheep”. All will dwell together as “one flock” under “one shepherd”.
PSALM 115:16
A Paradise on Earth?
Psalm 115:16 says God has given the earth to the whole race of man. There are no distinctions or exclusions mentioned (“other sheep” or “anointed class” – 144000). The earth is mortal man’s as a dwelling place and a place to rule (Gen 1:28).
All true believers look to a heavenly destiny, not an earthly destiny. (Eph 2:19; Phil 3:20; Col 3:1; Heb 3:1; 12:22; 2 Pet 1:10,11; Jn 12:26; Gal 3:29; 4:28-31; Titus 3:7; James 2:5)
PSALM 37:9,11,29
A Paradise on Earth?
The psalmist, in context, was speaking of something that people in his own lifetime (and following generations) would experience.
The Hebrew word for “earth” (eres) in Psalm 37 often carries the meaning of “land” (Psalm 7:29).
The Hebrew word for “forever” is ad (v.29). In the OT, it often denotes the unforeseeable future. The phrase “dwell in it forever” means “dwell in it from present through the unforeseeable future”, not necessarily for eternity.
Wow, thanx guys for all of this info'.
Now my other question is this?
How do they convince educated people that this is the truth?
They are very clever in that they do!
My sister believed all of their doctrine, for a long time I thought I had found the truth too.
We are not stupid people, how do they do it?
CaZ
Well, You can fool some off the people some of the time.....
