I was a JW for over 20 years and I did not leave because I did anything wrong or because I wanted to persue some kind of wrongdoing.
Thats a very interesting opener, although it leave's open the fact that! 'are any of us persuing wrongdoing?' this is one of my biggest downfalls lol trouble always somehow seems to find me. hehehe
but it was obvious that the STATUS and BANK ACCOUNTS of the appointees were what REALLY determined their appointments
This really doesn't bother me so much for some reason :) and on another note I could careless if I was invited to handle the mic's lol or not. I do remember helping to clean the hall up but it never seemed like a big deal power struggle or a reason to feel resentful about it.
'brotherly love' is totally fake. These people would rather knock on the doors of strangers all day long rather than help out a fellow JW who is sick, elderly or in need simply because they cannot report the time they spend in helping one another.
This has been the not been something I experienced recently my father passed away. and for the last few months a brother came by my mothers house read the bible talked about things. They even actually disscussed where we could find each other in paradise. My father will be climbing trees.. so at least I do have something to think about when my turn comes.. my father also had over 300 visitors the last few days he had over 400 people at his funeral and I am pretty positive most loved him. ALthough a biggy happend there my cousin came. but guess what shes DA and I got a picture perfect view of "SHUNNING" which was not part of the truth while I was still attending but became pretty much the BIGGEST part that I still do not aggree with that came into effect after or while I was fading out of attending the meetings. SHUNNING is TERRIBLE I cant bring myself to do it and it rips apart familys. I guess SHUNNING, and DEALING WITH SHUNNING is one reason I am posting up...
Mr. Franz wrote the book to let people know what is REALLY going on within this organization (and it doesn't have much to do with God's holy spirit or direction).
This is what I would like to know before reading the book :) what really is going on? is it the NGO-UN thingy? humm who hasn't been taken in by tricky stuff like that the internet companys AOL free 1000 minutes cd or made mistakes like that or email address phishing? the doctrine? 1914? I can even allow myself to belive them to keep the dream going not to loose my family and to see my father again (in his treehouse!!!!). I really need some SHOCK and AWE though to let my dream of seeing my parents again after they have passed driftaway so easily.
New in southern california
by clear2c 17 Replies latest jw friends
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clear2c
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AlmostAtheist
I really need some SHOCK and AWE though to let my dream of seeing my parents again after they have passed driftaway so easily.
How's this for shock and awe? In Malawi, JW's were raped and murdered because they refused to purchase political party cards. (You remember that era, I'm guessing) The Watchtower told the brothers in Malawi that buying the card would be taking a political stand, violating neutrality. So they obeyed and died.
Meanwhile -- at the same time -- the brothers in Mexico faced a different problem. The law required them to join the military and put in some time of service. This was recorded on a card. The brothers were regularly bribing government officials to fill out the cards for them so it appeared that they had served, when they had not done so. The Mexican branch asked Brooklyn about it, as some brothers' consciences were bothering them. Brooklyn replied that while any legal troubles that resulted from the practice would be on the individual brothers' heads, they could continue doing it.
WTF? Malawi brothers die over a 25 cent political card, but brothers in Mexico can bribe officials into falsifying their government records?
I about fell out of my chair when I read that the first time.
Dave
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clear2c
Hi AlmostAtheist, Cellist, free will :) thanks for replying to my post :)
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clear2c
How's this for shock and awe? In Malawi, JW's were raped and murdered because they refused to purchase political party cards. (You remember that era, I'm guessing) The Watchtower told the brothers in Malawi that buying the card would be taking a political stand, violating neutrality. So they obeyed and died.
Firstly I would like to say that I feel for anyone that was murdered or raped or the familys of them and would like to make a couple points and share a first hand experience with you. hehehehe (wow I still remember kingdom 133t$peak) lol
1) Have you ever been to mexico?
Some time ago my (sibling) was taken to jail in mexico for partying a little too hard while at hussong's cantina. The mexican police arrested him and took him to mexican PRISON not a regluar jail seems he had broken some arcane law that was a major offense. The ambassador to mexico called my house and well the bottom line is that we flew down there and essentially met with a (extortionist) I mean lawyer he says to us come up with 5,000 cash to give to the court (I mean bribe the judge) or my sibling gets 25 years in mexican prison. Seems the mexican goverment at that point in time there was so corrupt this transaction happend within 15 mins and my brother was out. All in open court as if it was not bribery or the same thing as bribery. so without knowing the details about how EXACTLY the transaction happend I would in fact say that my experience is that the mexican govt at that time only would except bribes. thats their system from what experienced thats just how the mexican goverment operates. So I can directly understand how the brothers would be faced with payoffs everyone is on the take in mexico you even have to bribe people at the mexican DMV to get your car registered lol. (this bit of info mite clarify to people around the world the situation comparing the differences of the govts)
2) Have you ever been to Malawi?
I have no idea how their govt operates but it could be a completely different situation. Some senarios that come to mind are that they could possibly use a political card to track and kill or rape more JW's.
3) Have you ever held a political card? if so please tell me about how it works "but remember that information would only apply to your govt or area that the cards a valid authority."
Thanks for your reply tho but it was not the SHOCK and AWE that I am looking for. -
Es
welcome to the board, enjoy your stay, hope you find what you are searching for
es
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twinflame
Hello from nothern CA. Welcome to the board and unlike what you're used to, feel free to ask questions. There's a lot to learn that we were never told.
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thom
Welcome, clear2c.
Crisis of Conscience covers the Malawi/Mexico thing in great detail. Showing how the brothers in Mexico even felt that what they were doing may not be proper, and expressing concern over the difference with how things were dealt with in Malawi. He covers governing body discussion of the matter, and provides scans of letters to and from bethel in Mexico. Getting more detail might make things much clearer.
I found that when I was still a JW, it was very easy for me to explain away concerns. I would make assumptions but they tended to be based on the "fact" in my mind that the WTS was most likely right and I was really just brushing off evidence to the contrary.
I also did not leave due to anything I did or wanted to do that would get me into trouble. I'm neither df'd or da'd at this time. -
clear2c
HI!! es, twinflames, and thom
Thanks for replying to my post :) and for the welcoming to the boards! it is nice to know that there are so many people in my situation or simular situations out there that can relate to being involved with the organization and what it does to family. The statements I made above where not really in defense of WTS.. in fact to be honest I have never had a good feeling about "The Organization" ever since I was a small boy playing under the seats at dodger stadium during the heat of summer I always had an uneasy feeling about "The Organization" at the age of 14 or so I was given some (modest pressure) to get baptised and after reading some of the treads here in the forums and piecing the changes in WTS change in stance together it seems like just after I started refusing to go to meetings and stuff around 1980 or so the WTS took a hard line stance on things. I just assumed it was my parents being freaking overly unreasonable and did not realize the changing of the JW idealism. I was asked to leave (read thrown out into the WORLD, ironic isn't it) and basically shunned by most of my entire huge family (YIKES!!!) and considered a very and I really fullfilled their every expectation of it. LOL had I been baptised I probably would have been disfellowshiped INSTANTLY LOL. (( OH AND HOW DO YOU GET CAUGHT?, any one df please let me know! )) for the shunned its not really much better except you never really getaccused of anything (they just know your a badsheep, lol) The ones that didn't completly snub me let me know for sure that I was not a "REAL" part of the family (grrrrr, lol) I suppose I could be very resentful and go on and on and on etc for all this but I also did come away from it a very strong person and due to recent events in my life am just considering things again. I actually found this site while doing some searches on amazon book stores started reading some of the threads about Ray Franzs book everyone seems to like it around here can any of you fill me in ?
Thanks to you all for your replys! :) and welcomes :)