Applying Chapter 21 (“Captives of a Concept”)

by Cameron_Don 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • Cameron_Don
    Cameron_Don

    NOTE: I found the following experience where someone (Rob) applied Captives of a Concept’s Chapter 21 when trying to help his father-in-law see some of the interesting he learned from the Proclaimers book.

    __________________________________________

    “This past Wednesday night, the 6th. I met with my father-in-law. He was baptized in the 1960's. I had borrowed the "Proclaimers" book from him last month.

    He had asked a couple of times if I had read it yet and if I had any questions. I had let him know I did and learned some things from the book that surprised me. I had let him know a few weeks later that I would like to sit down with him to go over some things.

    “Four months ago I read (about a 100 times), "Captives of a Concept". I took Cameron's advice in chapter 21 and basically copied in my hand writing chapters 2-5. I included a few choice past Watchtower writings that back up the books fine points.

    “My father-in-law was an elder in the 70's and was disfellowshipped for reasons I am not clear of. He was reinstated but never back to elder.

    “I started the questions out, by pointing out the issues described in chapter 21. I told him I was surprised to learn that neither Russell or Rutherford never knew Christ returned invisibly in 1914. "What? Where does it say that?"

    “I told him I would point that out, let me just get through my points first. He agreed. I went through 6 other points with him. Letting him know many times that this was just an outline.

    “I then went over the outline of how the GB judges other religions (Matthew 7:2). How Franz explained it in "Gods Kingdom of a Thousand Years has approached". And how they use the Watchtower June 1, 2001 to come up with 4 points to Watchtower Standards. He agreed that this is "correct".

    “Long story short - He was not aware that the writings that "Proclaimers" book stated (without stating) that the first 2 Presidents didn't know when Christ arrived.

    “Had never made the correlation that The GB didn't know until 1943 that Christ had returned. He was visibly upset with this but a few minutes later composed himself.

    “He went through automatic dispelling of the facts. I held firm to what the book was stating.

    “I then asked that the Jehovah's Witnesses do without fail follow the bible scriptures. "There is no doubt they do" was his reply.

    “Well, I told him I was surprised to learn that they were the only religion not watching for Christ's return and didn't open to him in 1914. In direct conflict with (Luke 12:36-37), which we immediately read in the Bible.

    “I have never received a more hateful stare in my life!!

    I immediately countered with this is what the "Proclaimers" book is stating, not me, and that I was just as surprised. This seemed to disuse the situation.

    “There were no questions, no counter with scripture, no attempt to use (Proverbs 4:18). I WAS SURPRISED! We talked for an hour about these issues. Me keeping the points on course with numerous attempts by him to bring other bible scriptures into the mix.

    “There were 2 attempts to use (Proverbs 4:18) to show me that these topics were off course. But by having first established the strict Watchtower Standards using (Matthew 24:45-47) and that Jesus would “review what they were teaching UP to 1919, he had no argument for the facts.

    “The only issue that was met with complete Refusal was the fact that ---- "In 1919 that slave was identified as the remnant of anointed Christians." Watchtower January 15, 1994 p.16

    “This is not true. They didn't identify that slave this way until 1927. In 1919 that Slave was still identified as C.T. Russell. Complete refusal on my father-in-law’s mind to accept it. He stated that the watchtower was correct in stating it was Russell.

    “So much for the plural nature of the Watchtower writing.

    I walked away from the table shaking his hand. I had let him know that it was my research into the history that prevents my Daughter from attending the Kingdom Hall. He said he was OK with that.

    “Since then I feel like I have Disrespected a good man. But then I remember some quotes from Ray Franz and realize I need to do what is right to protect my family, and when I am asked why, I state "I have learned the Truth about the Truth".

    “I hope this experience will help someone."

    “Rob”

    ___________________

    Submitted by Don Cameron

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    I love your book Don

  • Quendi
    Quendi

    I'm another big fan of Captives of a Concept.

    Quendi

  • yesidid
    yesidid

    That was a good "experience".

    Thanks Don.

  • irondork
    irondork

    tag

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    Don, thanks for sharing. I really appreciate your book.

    I love the simple approach of stating, after establishing that my JW beliefs are different now than they were in 1919:

    • If they (the WT) were right then in 1919, then they are wrong now and we shouldn't believe them.
    • If they (the WT) are right now, then they were wrong then in 1919 and wouldn't have been chosen by Christ.

    Either way they lose. No doctrines need be discussed. Beautifully elegant in its simplicity.

    00DAD

  • rip van winkle
    rip van winkle

    Hi Don. I have read your book several times in the last couple of weeks.

    You have simplified the facts in such an easy understandable way.

    Thank you so much!!!

  • The Oracle
    The Oracle

    Hi Don,

    Thanks very much for sharing the experience.

    As you know this is only the tip of the iceberg. For every story like this we hear about, there are a hundred more just like it, happening somewhere around the world.

    Thanks again.

    The Oracle

  • Cameron_Don
    Cameron_Don

    Thanks for all the nice comments about the book.

    It is hoped that it is iable to eventually reach those Witnesses and their families who are struggling with what they see going on but just haven't been able to put it together in order to see what it all means, which is simply that the Watchtower Soiciety has never been God's organization.

    Don

  • kepler
    kepler

    ...He was not aware that the writings that "Proclaimers" book stated (without stating) that the first 2 Presidents didn't know when Christ arrived.

    “Had never made the correlation that The GB didn't know until 1943 that Christ had returned. He was visibly upset with this but a few minutes later composed himself.

    “He went through automatic dispelling of the facts. I held firm to what the book was stating.

    “I then asked that the Jehovah's Witnesses do without fail follow the bible scriptures. "There is no doubt they do" was his reply.

    “Well, I told him I was surprised to learn that they were the only religion not watching for Christ's return and didn't open to him in 1914. In direct conflict with (Luke 12:36-37), which we immediately read in the Bible.

    ----------------------------------

    Don Cameron,

    Greetings. Read with interest your account of the family discussion about the "events" of 1914 to 1919. Elsewhere on this forum I had touched on the Faithful Slave doctrine and certainly the significance of 1914 and the subsequent selection of God's theocratic voice on Earth circa 1919. In fact, in one recent topic, I had asked specifically how it was possible to witness an invisible event: How do you know when it occurred? How to corroborate accounts ( e.g. two witnesses attesting to the same thing)? Understand that I am not a JW, but have been drawn into these discussions by circumstances ( my ex fiance decided to return to the faith and I took instructions for several months at home). So many ideas have not really sunk in from years of exposure or avidly reading piles of publications.

    But in some respects, in proposing the topic of witnessing an invisible event, it struck me a little like a comedy sketch even as I wrote it. I could have laughed more if things had not turned out so terribly on a personal scale and on the much larger one of a century old world-wide multi-million victim network. But you have added even more spin to this curve ball. These events have become even more invisible if the principal witnesses had no knowledge of their own testimony or never even made such claims.

    I hope you will reiterate some of what you have written here on the forum. And describe the argument in more detail.

    Looking forward to reading your book.

    Best regards,

    K

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