ExJWs and NonJWs Ask: Should I Try to Change My Mate?

by pirata 16 Replies latest jw friends

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  pirata

  I put this together more as a collection of my thoughts. I would appreciate hearing your thoughts, disagreements, rebuttals, etc on this subject as it has been weighing a lot on my mind lately:

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  After reading a lot of heart-breaking stories over the years on this message forum about mates who no longer believe in the JW religion, the common thread seems to be a desire to get the JW mate to see the same thing; with usually dissapointing results.

  I am currently of the opinion that maybe the best thing is NOT to try to change your mate's religion. Agree to disagree. Don't discuss religion. If you have a spiritual need, discuss it with others and focus on common interests that you have with your mate.

  Ccriticizing the Watchtower, or the Awake, or the governing body, or the brothers and sisters, makes you look more like an enemy than a friend; at least from the JW mates point of view. This puts up their defences and causes a more of a strain in the marriage. When their defences are up, they're not listening anyways.

  The time may come when your mate reaches out to you for information. They may have doubts and appreciate that they have someone they can discuss it with. Or not. Live with the realization that they may never change, and make the best of your marriage. If the JW mate is the one that is refusing to make the marriage work, then you have tried your best. If they are willing to give it a go, then you may still have a good thing.

  Your JW mate may try to informally witness from time to time. This gives you opportunities to express your thoughts on what they say. A two-way informal witness of sorts. I would think that keeping positive, making new friends, speaking kindly of your JW family and former JW associates that are shunning you may be a powerful "witness" in itself.
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  brotherdan

  I couldn't have put it any better. That is EXTREMELY good and valuable advice. I wish I would've read that 2 years ago.
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  out4good3

  the best thing is NOT to try to change your mate's religion. Agree to disagree. Don't discuss religion. If you have a spiritual need, discuss it with others and focus on common interests that you have with your mate.

  That would be all well and fine if only the witness mate would reciprocate. In large measure, most of them will not. They would be just as determined to get you back into the religion as you are to get them out. They will continually rag on anything not stamped with the WT seal of approval and expect you to sit there and take it even if you are of the opinion that there is nothing terribly wrong with the issue. If the conversation deviates to anything critical of the WT Soceity you're labeled the troublemaker and fault-finder when in fact, it is them on not seeing anything positive in the world.
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  jgnat

  Here's my random thoughts.

  I follow Steve Hassan's advice and distinguish the two personalities in my JW husband; the cult personality and the natural man. I keep the cultist calm and concentrate on the natural man. The result is I have a mildly satisfied man with occassional jags of guilt and the society has a terrible Witness.

  When any spouse changes religion it can be a huge strain on the relationship, as you walked in to a marriage thinking you are getting one person and then they go and change on you. This goes both ways, for the spouses of exited Witnesses, and for regular folk whose partners decide to become Witnesses. I can understand then why spouses would fight tooth and nail to restore what they feel they have lost.

  Forced change rarely works. Only attempt if their chosen path has become threatening to their continued health. Consider the smoker who develops emphysema, a partner who develops a mental illness, or an extreme sport junkie who comes home in a body cast. Sometimes loving someone means waking them up to the hazard of their choices. You could argue that the forced lifestyle of the Witnesses, where everyone has the same "ambition" and goals (greater field service), and a communal shunning of all who do not believe as them, to take a great toll on body and soul.

  Even so, I would suggest approaching a spouse gently, in deep respect for their personhood, not demanding or emotional.
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  pirata

  That would be all well and fine if only the witness mate would reciprocate. In large measure, most of them will not. They would be just as determined to get you back into the religion as you are to get them out. They will continually rag on anything not stamped with the WT seal of approval and expect you to sit there and take it even if you are of the opinion that there is nothing terribly wrong with the issue. If the conversation deviates to anything critical of the WT Soceity you're labeled the troublemaker and fault-finder when in fact, it is them on not seeing anything positive in the world.

  @out4good3. That is a good point. It has to work both ways. I looked through all the Watchtower Library and their is a pittance of articles that deal with living with a mate who is an ex-JW. The most current one that discussed this at length was in 1952 (but let me know if I missed a newer one). Some of the JWs have mentioned on other message boards that this would be similar to living with an unbelieving mate. BUT, articles such as the following basically say that the now-unbelieving mate is under Satan's influence:

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  w52 11/15 p.704 QuestionsFromReaders***

  God’s law does not allow a marriage partner to dismiss his mate because his mate becomes disfellowshiped or apostatizes. Neither will the law of the land in most cases allow a divorce to be granted on such grounds. The faithful believer and the apostate or disfellowshiped mate must legally continue to live together and render proper marriage dues one to the other

  Satan’s influence through the disfellowshiped member of the family will be to cause the other member or members of the family who are in the truth to join the disfellowshiped member in his course or in his position toward God’s organization. To do this would be disastrous, and so the faithful family member must recognize and conform to the disfellowship order. How would or could this be done while living under the same roof or in personal, physical contact daily with the disfellowshiped? In this way: By refusing to have religious relationship with the disfellowshiped.

  The marriage partner would render the marriage dues according to the law of the land and in due payment for all material benefits bestowed and accepted. But to have religious communion with the disfellowshiped person—no, there would be none of that! The faithful marriage partner would not discuss religion with the apostate or disfellowshiped and would not accompany that one to his (or her) place of religious association and participate in the meetings with that one. As Jesus said: “If he does not listen even to the congregation [which was obliged to disfellowship him], let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector [to Jehovah’s sanctified nation].” (Matt. 18:17, NW) Hurt to such one would not be authorized, but there would be no spiritual or religious fellowshiping.

  The purpose of observing the disfellowship order is to make the disfellowshiped one realize the error of his way and to shame him, if possible, so that he may be recovered, and also to safeguard your own salvation to life in the new world in vindication of God. (2 Thess. 3:14, 15; Titus 2:8) Because of being in close, indissoluble natural family ties and being of the same household under the one roof you may have to eat material food and live physically with that one at home, in which case 1 Corinthians 5:9-11 and 2 John 10 could not apply; but do not defeat the purpose of the congregation’s disfellowship order by eating spiritual or religious food with such one or receiving such one favorably in a religious way and bidding him farewell with a wish for his prosperity in his apostate course.
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  CUTAWAY

  When I was a member of the Organization, (39 years), I remember every situation like this being given the same scriptural admonition;, "Win your wife/husband over, without a word".

  The end results of 10, 20 , 30 years of this spriitual "silent treatment", can be alienation, unhappiness, wasted lives, and many times, the death of what God had joined together.

  When married persons inter into a religion, they are , or should be made aware of the possible future issues that can, and probably will result when one disagrees with a portion, or all of the teachings of another's religion. Hindsight is truly 20-20.

  The problem I have seen with Jehovah's witnesses is this; Regardless of the differences between husband or wife, the Witnesses never yield thier position, and the offended mate is eventually ousted, ignored, or exchanged for another, by indifference, intolerance, and impatience.

  Inevitably, one of the mates seeks a release from the other, and that is when, after a time, fornication/pornea usually occurs. The "innocent" mate 9 times out of 10, is the Witness. The witnesses have a support group that most would envy, right or wrong, they are there for the remaining member, many times with an "available" replacement mate in the wings, while the one leaving is viewed as " was just not one of us", and also never received any loving assistance or help. It is this indifference to the marriage vows, that makes Jehovah's Witnesses guilty, at least in my mind, of coming between the God-sanctified relationship known as marriage.

  I have also seen cases where the non-witness mate is cornered, attacked by the "friends", and over time is pushed into an emotional state of rebellion against the Witnesses, and a divorce is approved by the elder-body due to "endangerment to the spiritual life of the remaining Witness".

  Ultimately, it is the leaving mate who is truly damaged, but who is also truly enlightened. One's "Christian conscience" is of greater worth than the losing of oneself to an unloving mate, a dominating organization, or brand of religious views.

  Everyone wants to persue happiness and religious freedom. It is the ones promising this freedom, that when they fail to provide it, who will be responsible for the crushed and disassociated lives of millions of people. Anyone of us could be next, if you are not careful of who you put your trust in.....surely not, in "earthling man!"
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  Mad Sweeney

  I think jgnat nailed it. Hassan knows his stuff. There really are two people in there.

  Also, CUTAWAY's comment made me think of a way the non-JW can politely tell his/her JW spouse to shut up about religion scripturally. "Honey, the Bible commands you to win me over 'without a word' doesn't it?"
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  AudeSapere

  Cutaway wrote: I remember every situation like this being given the same scriptural admonition;, "Win your wife/husband over, without a word".

  The end results of 10, 20 , 30 years of this spriitual "silent treatment", can be alienation, unhappiness, wasted lives, and many times, the death of what God had joined together.

  Wow. I NEVER heard this scripture interpreted to mean 'give them the silent treatment'. In fact, just the opposite. I always took 'without a word' to mean 'without preaching, harping, nagging, etc'.

  In context the scripture does not seem to indicate a dispassionate shrew but, rather, an involved and attentive spouse (wife) trying to win over an 'unbelieving' spouse with kindness and radiant inner beauty.

  The more-loving interpretation of this scripture was a running theme in my family when asked how they came into the 'truth':

  Before my parents started studying, we hosted some international visitors for the 1969 convention in NYC. Four adults stayed with us for 3 weeks. My dad had just one rule for them: No Preaching.

  And so it was. They could talk about any other subject than the Bible and their religion. Because of the respect they showed for my father's request (demand?), it softened my parents to the message that was later presented by other local witnesses with the result that they were baptized at the very next summer convention.

  I cannot imagine what it would be like to live for a week with someone who is so distant and alienated from me. After a month I would want to hang myself - or leave. Cannot even begin to imagine what 10 - 20 - 30 YEARS would be like. OMFG~!!

  But back to the OP. Finding fun, upbuilding, interesting activities for each of you is a much better use of time than harping on the dissonance. Letting the 'believing' spouse have their space and creating a 'safe' environment where they can let their hair down can be a much easier path than forcing them to keep on alert for breaches in their spiritual armor.

  Good Post. I think it's an important discussion. One that should be BTTT'd often.

  Cutaway - Welcome to JWN! Really nice to have you join us and join in the discussion. Looking forward to hearing more from you in the future.

  -Aude.
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  man in black

  wow, some excellent comments,

  when we left the jw religion my wife jumped over to the mormon faith, it was/is quite a strain when we both left.

  When one mate completely changes their spiritual outlook after 30 years together,,,, .

  I have to say that every comment made carries great weight here, thank you all for some very enlightening thoughts
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  Band on the Run

  I lived in Manhattan for forty years and witnesses many Jewish/Christian couples. Past generations one usually converted to the other's religion. My generation seems different. People respect the other's backkground without trashing their own. I worshipped in large, urban churches. When Christmas and Easter arrived, many Jewish spouses visited the church to spend the impt holidays with their spouse. Some went their own way to church or synoggue but it did not seem to mar the marriage. Well, these were secular or reform Jews. Perhaps a few conservative. No Orthodox Jews. I suppose this was possible b/c neither side preached supremacy.

  I wonder how any marriage stays together when only one becomes a Witness. It affects private marital affairs. The religion is so encompassing it affects life in general. It is not just one segment of life.

  I am active in Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families. My family put the D in dysfunctional. The central tenet of AA and other Twelve Step programs is that you focus on yourself. It is not possible to control another person. If lawyers could solicit, I'd attend a KH and hand out business cards for divorce law. I recall the grief of the sisters concerning their husbands. Do you look forward to Armageddon when your beloved will die horribly? When people preach to me about anything, I shut them out with locks on my mind. Rather than converting me to their viewpoint, they make my initial view strong as steel. Example is another matter. True discussion is another.

  I see marriage as special. Society certainly regards it as so. All sorts of tax breaks (unfair), rights, privileges and confidentialty attach. I don't know how spouses stay together.